Paid Apprenticeships with degree

[Maggiethecat]

Dd2, year 10, has been telling me about paid apprenticeships and being very money driven would like to explore this path.

I'm not sure how serious she is as she doesn't even really know what she wants to do afterwards but she is very academic (social sciences leaning) and likely to get offers from very good unis.

I think that route is probably good for people who know what they want to do and getting paid experience and a degree at the end sounds appealing.

Does anyone have any experience of apprenticeships and which field?

I also did similar many years ago so not sure what's on offer these days but I've certainly encouraged my two (15 &17) to consider all options as it was a great experience for me. I started work at 18 for a chemical firm, 4 days in labs and one day at (Poly/Uni), initially doing an HNC followed on to a degree course and ended up with a BSc in Chemistry. I did a 9 to 9 day, lectures followed by lab work in the evening, took me 6 years but I was earning the whole time and bought my first house at 23. Exhausting yes, but definitely doable especially when you're young. I wish this option was still more available today.

I'm in my 40s and currently doing an apprenticeship alongside my job in finance. Once finished, I'll be a qualified chartered accountant. I'm on normal wages but the course cost £2k instead of £21k and I have to do extra work to prove I have the skills, knowledge and behaviours.

DC is a a degree apprentice in UX with block leave for uni (travel and hotels funded by employer). The pay is decent and DC graduates in 4 years, by which time they should be a mid level to senior designer. Competitive to get a place but definitely worthwhile.

I am in the middle of a degree apprenticeship in a QC Micro position in the pharmaceuticals industry. In term time I am in university 2 days a week for labs and lectures. It’s very intense and busy. My 3 days in work are very busy also but I love it. I am paid over 26k at the moment and I have private health insurance, 10% pension contribution and an annual bonus too. I am not obligated to stay with the company after, although I intend on staying if I can! My salary should go up to circa 40k once I qualify. I am in Ireland though but I’m sure there’s similar in the U.K.

@Maggiethecat
There are some quite interesting views on this thread. I do believe most apprenticeships are not general. When a degree is involved, a job sector must be chosen. You cannot end up doing engineering with a company if you have done an accountancy role/degree. The final qualification is vital. As an example, after a MEng done conventionally, a whole range of jobs open up. Especially if it’s a degree from a top university. Also city snd finance jobs. They pay way more than post apprenticeship employees with a BEng degree in engineering from a moderate university. The former student will earn more and get CEng earlier too, if that’s what they want. An apprenticeship is less transferable.

The firms rarely choose the very best universities for apprenticeships. It’s all about contracts. A MEng full time is pretty full on. Studying 1 day a week won’t be for MEng and will be a slow BEng. If DD wants to be a high earner, it’s worth understanding that RG universities, and a few elite ones within that group, lead to higher salaries. As well as subject chosen. Sciences do better overall but Economics grads perform strongly, according to the IFFS. The other thing to bear in mind is, for example, that non law grads can convert to law. Law doesn’t have to be your first degree. (Although not sure about Scotland). I would not do social policy/sciences at a lower tariff university. Always aim high. There are loads of these grads plus History, politics, IR and other humanities subjects all going for the same high grade jobs. Civil Service fast stream is suspended right now but the success rates are vanishingly small.

So if she doesn’t know exactly what she wants, a highly valued degree from an elite university is always the best choice if she’s money driven. My DD1 is and she earns multiples of any apprentice in her late 20s. But you have to play your cards right!

I work in a very high tech manufacturing industry and some companies do run degree apprenticeship schemes. If she can find a scheme in the career of her choice it is fantastic, it's harder work without the long holidays, and the good ones are extremely competitive.

My DD is a degree apprentice and I don’t have a bad word to say about it. She is doing a science based BSc degree but I don’t think it is going to limit her future career choices, she doesn’t think she will stay in this field of work. There are loads of apprentices in her company, she house shares and they have loads of social activities and organise plenty of their own. After 4 years she will have a degree, no debt and 4 years work experience.
There are a lot more to choose from now, she had a uni place as back up just in case.

OP
Look at the Institute for Apprenticeships website, and the ‘standards’ tab to see what is possible. There is a massive range available now including arts and some humanities/ social science based. If you look at the ‘Employers involved in creating the standard’ you will get a flavour of SOME employers likely to offer the programme.

A pp mentioned the apprenticeship levy. What it has done is given employers more flexibility in how they structure their apprenticeship. The reason why there has been a government push toward apprenticeships is to arm people with skills needed for the industry.

So, there is a great deal of variation between apprenticeships.

I know someone who did a condensed degree apprenticeship ( so did not have the long breaks uni students have). He essentially completed a recognised degree AND the apprenticeship qualification. Done in 3 years.

I disagree with the pp who said there is less graduate options, as they will hold a recognised degree.

The gov vacancy site is hit and miss for degree apprenticeship vacancies. Have a look at Get My First Job, and Notgoingtouni.

However, Op, your child can keep her options open- she could study A levels / L3 courses at college or Sixth Form which opens doors for both uni and apprenticeships.

And- there are more available every year- many great opportunities- don’t just aim at Civil Service or PwC .

Early research is the key.
Good Luck!

it might be a recognised degree but it will be interesting to see if apprentice grads can compete with grads from Imperial or LSE for example. Apprentice degrees are typically from lower tariff universities.

it’s also an interesting concept that after all the effort that firms put into apprenticeships that their employees don’t want to stay with them. No loyalty there then! @FoxandFeathers How odd that she doesn’t like her field of work. That’s a pretty cynical approach. Take the money and free training and move on! Does she not have to pay anything back?

No tie in. They pride themselves on being an amazing employer so want the apprentices to stay because they like it. Miserable workers are not a good part of the workforce. That said, I think my daughter will look for a job in the company but just in a different area. Not really cynical, many people change their mind about what career they want to do in all types of roles, you don’t always know until you try!
Im sure there will be people who say the opposite, but some of the grads from Russell group unis who work there with my daughter say they wish they’d gone straight there. They are not earning any more than the ones who started at 18. But some people need that uni experience to mature a bit. Everyone is different!

I hate to say it, but if she doesn't know what she wants to do, she's probably not going to get an apprenticeship position handed to her. They're very competitive (who wouldn't want to get paid to study?). She won't be able to demonstrate the motivation, skills etc. required right now.

Alevels And university is probably a better option if she's academic. Or a higher apprenticeship after getting a first degree.

For the competitive apprenticeships, what sort of things help the candidates get the job? Is it lots of co curricular (like for competitive university places), demonstrable interest in the subject, or something else?

Am interested in these as an option.

My son is doing an accountancy apprenticeship with one of the big four, leading to chartered accountant status. There’s a lot of self study but he does get study leave. Considering the past few years we have all had, (he’s 22), it’s worked out well, as he has four years work experience behind him, and he’ll qualify in the next year.

Incidentally, there’s lots of different types of accountancy courses you can do, not just bookkeeping and auditing. He does more business stuff.

He does sometimes wonder what uni life would have been like, but doesn’t regret the route he took either. He’s even gone back to his his old grammar school and given career talks on apprenticeships, in a school which is very university driven.

We've been investigating this as D's is interested in the pwc degree apprenticeship at UoB. It's the same degree as the computer science degree, but you get your fees paid for and a salary. In return you work there over the summer breaks and then spend a sandwich year working there, and return for the final year. There is some extra work to complete for the apprenticeship element in addition to the degree.

The application process is interesting. You apply for it via UCAS and then apply directly to pwc. There are 3 rounds of recruitment. If you are unsuccessful, your UCAS option reverts to the degree. So it doesn't take two of your options.

They are running 4 of these, Birmingham, Leeds, Belfast and I think, a London uni.

Seems like a no brainer to me. You might as well have a go.

I don't know, but imagine that there are other similar degree apprenticeships available in other areas.

Pwc were very keen that the students get the full university experience, so you attend uni just like the other degree students. No 80/20 split, or one day a week, or virtual learning only. It's an impressive scheme. I think Dyson do similar?

DS is doing a degree apprenticeship in aerospace engineering with Rolls Royce. He was clear that he wanted a degree but not the student debt and applied for lots of engineering degree apprenticeships plus UCAS as a back up. The selection process (even during COVID) is very rigorous. He is loving it - first year was college based, he is working for rolls Royce at the moment and, next year, will spend a day a week at uni, 2 evenings virtual learning and 4 days working! It isn’t for the faint hearted as he does work really hard.

@TAmum123
Does he know how long it will take him to become a Chartered Engineer when compared to MEng grads? They might pay a grad tax but are they earning better money more quickly?

@TizerorFizz
Grad tax? Do you mean student loan?

I work for an SME engineering company and we have had apprentices both at college and degree level. I wish it was an option when I was younger tbh, although my broader 'electrical engineering' degree has helped in some ways when certain sectors slumped.

A fresh university graduate would need to spend time in a graduate program or have considerable amounts of training. The apprentice is at an advantage with all the on the job training they have already received. This is especially if the degree is a general 'Mechanical Engineering' or such type course.

I'm not sure how important being a chartered engineer is in aerospace, but in my field it doesn't really matter or effect your pay.

He doesn’t need to be MEng - I understand that is important in other engineering fields but not in aerospace. LivingDead is right - rolls Royce will take on graduates but the degree apprentices who have already worked for them for 4 years, know the systems, have had an opportunity to prove themselves…. that will count for something! I do agree that degree apprenticeships are not suitable for all careers but they do lend themselves to some.

@Dotcheck
Yes. Grad tax. You don’t repay the loan like a Henley loan. Do read Martin Lewis for full info. Young people need to understand how student finance works before making decisions.

DH is an engineer. Salaries are affected by being Chartered. Higher salaries! BEng is a slow route and it might be that apprentices don’t sim as high as the MEng grads then. DH employs many engineers in his field and some work must be signed off by Chartered Engineers, ev structural engineering calcs. It’s a very important qualification for ambitious engineers who want top money.

Henley??? I meant bank loan! The top engineers at Rolls Royce all appear to be Chartered Engineers. Other roles and salaries are obviously available. However it remains the top professional qualification for engineers in this country and does command a salary premium. Rightly so.

@TizerorFizz
Yes, I know how Student Finance works. Repayment works LIKE a grad tax but is still called repayment, which is why I wanted to clarify what you meant ☺️

I think the word “loan” does imply it must be paid off. Clearly in the future, less will be written off, but young people should be aware it’s not a conventional loan and you don’t owe the money conventionally either. Therefore when looking at careers, and possible future earnings, some degrees from some universities will be better than apprenticeships in the long run. Young people should also understand what the route to the top of careers looks like.

When people say you don’t need to be a Chartered Engineer, it’s a bit like saying you don’t need to be a Doctor to perform surgery or RICS qualifications to be a Chartered Surveyor. It’s odd the Posters don’t value professional qualifications in engineering when every other developed country does.

I am responsible for degree apprenticeships at an engineering company and we offer engineering, construction management and QS apprenticeships.

All our apprentices have to undertake their Chartership as part of the End Point Assessment. They usually do this over a 2 year period at the end of the 5 year apprenticeship. Over 7 years, they have gained 7 years experience, a degree, chartership and a very good salary, with no student debt/loans.

They are all earning more money than their peers who went to Uni for 3 years, got a degree and had no actual work experience until they managed to secure a graduate role. My apprentices are far more valuable to us than a new graduate with no work experience.

The majority stay with us, as they are given lots of development opportunities, a very good pay structure and are well looked after.

Its got to a stage where we take very few graduates now, as our apprenticeship programme works so well. Graduates bring 3 years worth of academic study and very little else, regardless of the ‘stature or name’ of the Uni they went to.