UCL - Spanish and Russian

[Rzim]

My DD is going to UCL to read modern languages Spanish and Russian in October - any one else DC doing the same? They have written to her to ask if she's like to change from Russian (for obvious reasons) but she's sticking to her guns!!!

@Rzim

Why not look at other languages? Is she ab initio? If not I can see why she would stick with it if it’s post Russian A level, but her experience will be diluted. Why would she want that and not look at other languages to get the full experience? I cannot see our relationship improving with Russia improving in time for y3 abroad. Does she think it will?

Are they concerned about staffing levels? Do they have enough Russian lecturers? That might concern me too. I would have the conversation about whether sticking to her guns is the best course of action but if she has Russian A level, I get it. If not, I would change.

Thx - she's a ru

Sorry!!

She's Ab Initio - but wants to study a new alphabet as wants the challenge! Don't think they are worried about staffing levels - just thinking ahead to the year abroad!

Well in my view that’s a big issue and if she cannot go then it’s a massive problem for learning the language ab initio. She won’t be immersed in the culture. What about Arabic?

I have been to Russia several times but for the future it’s dire. It’s a huge shame because there’s so much to see, do and learn. Young people there have been welcoming and always keen to practice English.

Many thx - she won't be told! She may well cha fe her mind when she starts in October! X

Agree with tizer (as usual!). UCL may well cancel the Russian - most applicants they're asking will probably agree to swap. She needs to seriously think about an alternative. Arabic, Japanese, Mandarin would all give her the stretch she's after and offer great year abroad opportunities.

Is it possible she could do a year in another country with a Russian-speaking community? DD’s A level class are planning a trip to Estonia (nearly half a million Russian speakers).

I would be very surprised if they cancelled the course but it can’t hurt to think about other options.

I'm not sure about Manadarin either @titchy. DD's friends has been studying it for two years at university, and the year abroad has been cancelled.

Without immersing yourself in the country of the language you are learning I would think it would be pretty difficult to get a degree in it.

True, but hopefully China (and the rest of us) will be pretty much Covid free by the time OP's dd is in her third year.

I do think that’s the big issue here. The year abroad really improves ab initio students. Seeking out Russian speakers elsewhere and UCL having a host university there might be an issue.

6 months in Japan? That’s a great proposition.

Also if it's the new alphabet she thinks will be the challenge, it won't be. I learned ancient Greek at school and the alphabet was nothing, learned in lesson 1. Any language ab initio at uni is a challenge; better to study one where you can go there. What else are they offering her?

There are some advantages in learning Russian. It is a Slavic language so a real contrast to Spanish, forcing you to understand a lot about language structure and providing relatively easy access to other Slavic languages, of which there are plenty in the EU and future EU, most of which are becoming more economically important. The Russian Federation is huge, so a high number of speakers.

Great literature, a fascinating history, and a distinct culture, so lots to study as part of becoming familiar with the language. .

It is harder than Romance languages but not nearly as hard as Chinese so there is a better chance of becoming fluent. Chinese is tough and probably only investing time in if you are a very gifted linguist or if you start very early.

In the end an international career will require you to pick up languages quickly. The more, and the more different, languages you start with, the easier that will be.

I think there is also the aspect of culture and learning about the country whose language you are studying. Russia is unique. No doubt about that but you have to experience it. I would imagine UCL don’t want to see the learning experience diminished. It’s far more than language acquisition on the best courses. However that aspect would be severely curtailed if Russia is off the agenda.

@titchy
Thanks for your kind comment above.

Tizer, out of interest which languages have you acquired, and how did you learn them.

I suspect your experience is different to mine in that I did not study languages at University, but work reasons had to acquire four, including an Asian language as an adult. For me the real joy was the insight you got into a different country and culture. In part because works and grammar structures matter. Russian and Russia sound fascinating. Yes nice to get a chance to spend time in the country, but you can gain a huge amount without that. And a great contrast to Spanish.

It’s not “nice” to spend time in a country where the language is spoken, for a respected degree , it’s vital. Anyone who thinks you don’t need to isn’t really understanding how MFL degrees work at top uk universities. It’s not Duolingo. Working knowledge is not the same as a MFL degree. DD did one. Not me. I couldn’t imagine a top university not expecting DC to study abroad snd be immersed in the culture. It’s a whole year of the course. It’s extremely important. Also for maturity and growing up.

I agree @TizerorFizz, which is why DD's friend has had to drop Mandarin because she can't go to China.

Thx for all these helpful comments. She will need to split her 3rd year away between Spain and a Russian speaking country - so could go to anRussian speaking country like Estonia if Russia is not stable enough in 3 years time x

I would say that Russian would be a very useful language to have , thinking about jobs, with the current situation.

I would look into switching as others have said but continue learning Russian either via the university or privately. Even pre-Ukraine invasion the idea of spending time abroad in Russia as an ex-pat has become a bit unpalatable due to what seems to be happening to the people ideologically. It's an awful state of affairs :(

Hi OP, I'm not a UCL academic but I am an academic closely linked to UCL's School of Slavonic and Eastern European programmes.

SSEES is the great centre of learning in the UK for Slavonic languages and the culture, politics and history of the region - better than Oxford, Cambridge, Glasgow etc. There is not the slightest sliver of a possibility of a chance that they will stop offering Russian, as another poster suggested. It would be like MIT stopping teaching all science.

The UK is massively short of Russian speakers, and we're going into a period when there are sectors where it will be a skill in demand.

Your DD could not be going to a better place to study, and they will be working hard to sort out the year abroad issue. Please don't try to discourage her - it great that she wants to study Russian, and it will be a marketable skill when she graduates.

I would stick with Russian. It's an important world language, not only in Russia but throughout the Slavic region.

I can't believe UCL will sit back for two years and make no alternative arrangements for students to immerse themselves in the language.

Many many thx to the last two replies - really put my mind at rest! X

RampantIvy, on Mandarin, why not go to Taiwan rather than drop the language altogether. Mandarin speaking, friendly and very beautiful. With the increasing dominance of Mandarin in Chinese language schools in SE Asia (Malaysia and Singapore) there are significant communities where Mandarin has overtaken dialect as the means of day to day communication as well as education.

I accept that working in a language is not the same as a degree in a language. (Though when in Asia I used to be surprised at how poorly third year University students spoke the language.) However given Chartered Institute of Linguist Qualifications are considered as the equivalent of degrees, writing it off as Duolingo is a bit patronising.

I would not go to Taiwan in the next two years if you paid me. It is likely to become a war zone.

Yes, China has got its eyes on Taiwan. Besides, the university had a relationship with one on China until the lecturer there got kicked out.