Please help - Daughter thinking of dropping out due to study issues

[Willowcat77]

Would really appreciate some advice opinions on my daughter's situation. She has had to suspend her studies (Biology degree) twice due to not being able to cope with her studies, resulting in a distressing breakdown, twice.

We have tried but can't get help from the NHS and don't know what to do for the best. Can any of you understand what's going on with my daughter if I tell you her symptoms?

So when she tries to study she finds it hard to motivate herself, even when she is interested in the subject matter. She can't absorb the information and feels mentally exhausted very quickly. She procrastinates and as a result becomes extremely stressed and has to ask for extensions. This got worse with each year as the work pressure and requirement for independent study increased. She is supposed to be resuming her final year in October but feels history will just repeat itself and this is her last chance.

At school she did well academically, achieving A stars, so we are confused why she can't cope with university. She told me that she got through A levels because the work was so easy and she could get away with doing everything last minute.

She thinks she might have inattentive ADHD but is not being taken seriously by the NHS and it's impossible to get an assessment in time for October.

My daughter is in despair because she desperately wants to finish her degree but feels completely unable to do so. She feels that all her dreams and opportunities are ruined.

I don't know how to help her. Should I be encouraging her to return for her final year and give it another go, or would that be pointless and damaging because she might not cope again? She has never had a job and just dreamt of an academic career, which now seems impossible. DD has always been a very quiet, unconfident girl and now feels very lost.

Please can I have some opinions and advice?

And I agree, if the autism had been mentioned from the start, there'd have been different advice. What she's going through is pretty common for autists I know ...

And re ADHD, there's no magic bullet of a diagnosis - it's a hard slog, as a PP says about her DC who might have "done better" but are doing really well in managing their ND in an NT world.

More brilliant advice, @GoodThinkingMax

Thanks so much everyone for the new comments, which I am reading and trying to absorb. Sorry I should have mentioned her ASD earlier. I didn't originally because I wasn't sure if it was relevant to her study issues - both myself and DS are autistic but we had no problems at all with studying, so I thought it wasn't connected. Though reading your comments I can see it probably is!

Her university haven't been great re support, unfortunately. The advisors just insist she is depressed. They gave her 3 CBT sessions which she hated and said was pointless and annoying. They think she can't study because she is depressed, but DD says she is depressed because she can't study! She is now trying to apply for Disabled Student Allowance.

She was very tearful today, saying that she feels like a failure and that she has lost her chance of getting a science career.

I'm trying to boost her morale and convince her that all is not lost. She really is extremely bright and capable - her Tutor really rates her - so not being able to cope with university has come as a massive shock.

We are going ahead with the ADHD appointment because we need to know either way. She says she is aware of all the study skills and techniques but just can't maintain the routines.

She needs to make her disability office aware of her autism - I'm guessing she hasn't involved them as she didn't think it was affecting her studies? It seems that it very possibly is at the root so please try and get her to go back to them and see what support they can offer.

They think she can't study because she is depressed, but DD says she is depressed because she can't study!

I'm sorry, but in my experience of students with depression which hampers their ability to do their courses, the advisors are correct. Too many students cling on to studying as the thing which keeps them "normal" and makes them feel as though they're succeeding, whereas they're not actually learning. They're often absent, don't do the work, all sorts of ways in which they are hampered from learning - not talking about marks here - but the pure learning.

There's a point at which expert academic and guidance staff need to make decisions about the fit of a student in a specific course or programme.

I think you need to find ways to break this vicious cycle. There is no real reason why she MUST do a degree now. Doing something physical with animals, or volunteering, as PP g=have suggested upthread, might help her to re-set.

There is the Open University; there are degree programmes which can be done part-time or as sandwich courses, interlaced with industry placements etc. Her current degree studies will offer credits for work already done.

Health first.

And to be pragmatic, I ask her & you - what is the point of struggling through a degree in this sort of fog of panic and distress? What is she ACTUALLY learning?

She says she is aware of all the study skills and techniques but just can't maintain the routines.

It would be worth looking at why, if she's able to articulate why.

And then chunking down the routines to even smaller manageable portions of time.

Or setting daily goals - an hour's reading per day, in 10 minute bites? an hour's long walk, listening to a podcast. For essays: writing 250 words each day, using the creative writing technique of 'free writing.' Or just writing for 15 minutes 3 times a day.

Set up routines that she can feel successful about: I did an hour walk; I read for an hour in 3 x 20 minute chunks. I wrote a page of my report. That's a good day's work, ad gets her to her overall goals.

That sort of thing.

(Can you tell I'm speaking from my own experience )

For a reasonably bright student, A levels are pretty easy as most of it is spoon fed information/facts which are pretty easy to use/regurgitate in the exams, especially in Maths and the sciences.

I disagree. I would consider DD reasonably bright. She achieved mostly A and A* at GCSE, and AAA at A level, but she had to work hard for them. It has stood her in good stead because she has developed a fantastic work ethic, and knows that she won't get results unless she works hard. She is studying a STEM degree and has worked hard all the way through, and is currently sitting finals.

4 A's used to mean something - now it's just the norm as pretty much everyone gets those grades

No they don't. DD took her A levels in 2018, and getting As and A*s was not the norm. You must know a particularly bright cohort of 6th formers/students.

Being dismissive of students who work hard for their A and A* grades just devalues their efforts.

4 A's used to mean something - now it's just the norm as pretty much everyone gets those grades

No they don't. DD took her A levels in 2018, and getting As and As was not the norm. You must know a particularly bright cohort of 6th formers/students.

Being dismissive of students who work hard for their A and A grades just devalues their efforts.

You might not like it, but it's a fact. When over 25% of kids (in some subjects, it's up past 35%) get a top grade, I'm sorry, but it's not what it was. Back in my day, only the TRULY bright ones got a top grade. I know the year I took A levels - it was only the top 7% who got a top grade in the subjects I took. I got 2 A's and a B. IF i was taking A levels today, i"m fairly confident I would be getting 3 A*s' across the board - and trust me, I'm not a bloody genius by any stretch.

www.buckingham.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/A-Levels-2012.pdf#page=5

25% isn't "pretty much most kids" though. It is a quarter.

I don't disagree that more students get the higher grades these days but it still isn't most kids.

Send her for an ADHD assessment.

Just here to echo all those mentioning Disabled Student Allowance. Your DD will qualify for DSA based on her autism diagnosis. My DS uses his to pay for a mentor, who was allocated to him by Student Support at his uni.

She is not a specialist in his subject area, instead she is more like a kind of metronome. She keeps him on track/ticking along at the right pace and helps him to contact the right people when he has a struggle.

We had to involve both his doctor and the uni when he had a crisis in year two which brought everything to a head but got him the help he needed. (I did have to be physically present to talk to people on the phone alongside him as they couldn’t discuss with me unless he gave permission and part of his problem was his inability to do this/ask for help. If your DD can do this, I definitely recommend getting her to give written permission for everyone (uni, student support, GP, etc) to discuss her situation with you.)

His initial intention was to limp through to the end of year 2 and take the diploma/certificate(?) instead of a degree but, with the correct support in place, he has just about completed his final year. Your DD might decide that a different route is better for her once she has the support from the right people to help her view all of her options.

I really feel for you and your daughter and I know how helpless this can make you feel 💐

Good luck to you both.

The only ND condition where there are equal male: female diagnoses is dyslexia. Adhd is currently 4:1. Twitter is currently full of women 30+ getting diagnosed with adhd after years of meds for mh conditions they didn't have.

Glad she's got a date.

@Willowcat77 what you describe sounds identical to my son at Uni. He was diagnosed recently with ADHD and a massive weight was lifted just getting the diagnosis. No stigma attached to this once you understand neurologically what is happening and why. Disagree completely with an earlier poster that you would automatically know - in many cases you wouldn’t until being in a more unstructured environment than school. Definitely go forward with the consultation, make sure it’s age appropriate. The consultant we used specialises in students. Online consultation. Pm me if you want to talk further about the process / clinic we used. He has also had very good support from the Uni, including study support.

@Willowcat77 I came onto this board after a grim text from my son who is possibly failing out of 2nd year; I wondered if anyone had had similar issues. Your post is almost exactly what I would have written, down to the ASD diagnosis. The only difference is that DS has DSA and a variety of support people - but he just can't seem to do the work. I've just emailed an adhd clinic to try and get him a private appointment.

Thanks @SquirrelFan My DD is now applying for the DSA - a bit late in the day, but maybe she will get some help. So sorry to hear about your son too, it's so distressing when you realise how much they're struggling isn't it? Good luck with getting an appointment.

Thanks @keeplaughing My DD has her online adhd assessment on Saturday. I really hope she gets a diagnosis, because if she doesn't I will have no idea what to do next!

Thanks so much @HecatePecate It's great that your son managed to get some support and got through his degree despite his difficulties!

From experience and hindsight, read different articles that say the same or similar about x topics but that's written by different authors, as it will help the information stick.

use mind maps to connect information if it helps.

YouTube has good guides on how people revised for oxford university, which can be extrapolated to any university.

Do an hour or more each day when possible, and to help stay focused try to make note s on the different topics.

with me, I left assignments to the last minute, I studied ancient history and archaeology, and forensic science, when I should of been studying fairly modern history and business studies. And my attention was like a butterfly, I got inspiration for new research areas, but let them distract me instead of what I should of been actually studying.

overall I could of achieved a better grade than I did, but very thankful, I must of had a guardian Angel keeping an eye on me, so to speak, as by some mOracle I achieved my degree.

Lastly, you may be down in a pickle, you may be swamped, but never never give up, instead keep trying to find methods that will make improvements. (At least that's my philosophy)

Update: So DD had her ADHD assessment and she has now been diagnosed with inattentive ADHD. The psychiatrist will be starting her on medication soon. We are so relieved! At least we can hope that things will get easier for her now and she will be able to resume her studies in October
Thank you all for your comments and support x

Ah so pleased your DD has been taken seriously and has her diagnosis. And on the plus side there is plenty of time to get going on her medication before she goes back in October.

Your poor DD must have been really struggling. 🤞🤞things improve for her now.

I'm glad you've had a good result @Willowcat. It took us up to 2-3 months to titrate up to the right dose of Meds. here for one teen. The others took less time as they're on lower doses. Do remember to speak to the relevant Uni. Department & the Sendco Dept. I'm not sure what they're called at uni! As well as the DSA assessment.

I hope having an explanation helps her make sense of things, hopefully being managed and medicated will be much better for her mental health.

“She can't absorb the information and feels mentally exhausted very quickly. She procrastinates and as a result becomes extremely stressed.”

This sounds just like my daughter. She’s 15 and up until now has found school fairly easy but has really struggled in Year 10 and has said that she just can’t focus. Her end of year exams were very difficult for her and I’ve gone from thinking she’ll get 7/8 type grades to 5/6 if she’s lucky and works v v hard. She just doesn’t seem to be able to retain any information.

I've been thinking about inattentive ADHD as lots of things seem to fit but the places I’ve approached need the school to say that they’ve witnessed ADHD type behaviour, and if they can’t, they can’t go ahead with an assessment as it has to be shown in three settings. The problem I have is that her teachers barely know her. She’s quiet, shields at school, and although she might be completely unable to focus, she does ok in the assessments (with lots of help) so there are no red flags, although I feel she should be doing much better. It’s a completely different situation to a 8 year old boy at primary school, who is exhibiting more ‘typical’ ADHD traits, with a class teacher who knows him v well.

So, apologies for all the extra detail, but @Willowcat77 please could I ask where your daughter went for her online assessment? Thanks

@Sparklefish99 It was Berkeley Psychiatry and the doctor was Dr Rostamipour Berkeley psychiatry Hope the link works! Yes, my DD was also 'invisible' at school. Girls like ours fly under the radar and get ignored because they're 'no trouble'. Good luck 💐