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Higher education

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Please help - Daughter thinking of dropping out due to study issues

76 replies

Willowcat77 · 30/05/2022 11:50

Would really appreciate some advice opinions on my daughter's situation. She has had to suspend her studies (Biology degree) twice due to not being able to cope with her studies, resulting in a distressing breakdown, twice.

We have tried but can't get help from the NHS and don't know what to do for the best. Can any of you understand what's going on with my daughter if I tell you her symptoms?

So when she tries to study she finds it hard to motivate herself, even when she is interested in the subject matter. She can't absorb the information and feels mentally exhausted very quickly. She procrastinates and as a result becomes extremely stressed and has to ask for extensions. This got worse with each year as the work pressure and requirement for independent study increased. She is supposed to be resuming her final year in October but feels history will just repeat itself and this is her last chance.

At school she did well academically, achieving A stars, so we are confused why she can't cope with university. She told me that she got through A levels because the work was so easy and she could get away with doing everything last minute.

She thinks she might have inattentive ADHD but is not being taken seriously by the NHS and it's impossible to get an assessment in time for October.

My daughter is in despair because she desperately wants to finish her degree but feels completely unable to do so. She feels that all her dreams and opportunities are ruined.

I don't know how to help her. Should I be encouraging her to return for her final year and give it another go, or would that be pointless and damaging because she might not cope again? She has never had a job and just dreamt of an academic career, which now seems impossible. DD has always been a very quiet, unconfident girl and now feels very lost.

Please can I have some opinions and advice?

OP posts:
OneSayMaybe · 30/05/2022 21:11

OP I would be astonished if it isn’t ADHD. 💐

elastamum · 30/05/2022 21:15

Good she has an assessment booked. My DS had similar problems. He had a private assessment online during COVID, took a break from studying and got medication which made a huge difference to him. He has just finished his degree.

TellySavalashairbrush · 30/05/2022 21:21

I am in agreement that rather than an ADHD issue it may just be that the course is not for your dd. I get the impression that it is very important to you as a parent that she completes this degree- could she be worried what your reaction might be if she decided to call it quits? This isn’t me pointing fingers but more about having an awareness that what we want for our kids is not always what’s best for them (even if it seems it is) .
I am currently studying for a work related masters degree and can honestly say I have never felt so unmotivated and unhappy. I know the subject well, but it’s a whole new level of studying and at nearly 50 it’s just so tough. I need to complete or I risk losing my job, but given the option I’d give it up tomorrow.
i know it’s difficult but maybe check in and ensure your dd really does want to do this course for herself rather than not wanting to let others down if she did leave it.

Willowcat77 · 30/05/2022 21:21

OneSayMaybe · 30/05/2022 21:11

OP I would be astonished if it isn’t ADHD. 💐

Yes, however I'm worried they might dismiss it because it wasn't very obvious when she was a child. She was so quiet that she totally slipped under the radar at school. The teachers barely noticed she existed. Is this common in girls? The usual adhd stereotype is so different...

OP posts:
Thehouseofmarvels · 30/05/2022 21:27

@Willowcat87 Take it from someone who got diagnosed at 29, it is really easy to get missed as a female as females are much more likely to mask ADHD symptoms.

Thehouseofmarvels · 30/05/2022 21:37

As someone with ADHD who did well in school it sounds familiar. Did your daughter day dream, loose things, leave things to the last minute? Is she untidy?

Cantonet · 30/05/2022 21:42

@Willowcat I think ADHD in girls is quite unrecognised. My dd probably would have been missed, but ds2 was diagnosed with ADHD first after a severe depression. I then realised that dd2 suffered at a similar age, in spite of gaining an academic scholarship at a Gdst school earlier. It became very obvious in Covid times, as she struggled to cope with online schooling. Dd2 couldn't sleep until 2am in the morning and was permanantly exhausted. She completed her work badly. She dropped from the top to the bottom of the class in a few months. She was self harming & very depressed.

ADHD is notoriously under diagnosed in Girls. The symptoms are much more subtle and can be easily put down to hormonal issues.

elastamum · 30/05/2022 21:48

She may have ADD traits. My DS is extremely bright and managed at school despite his problems. He was never disruptive but continually daydreams. It wasn't until he started his very demanding stem subject that it started to unravel for him. I have the same profile and struggled at university in the 80s. However, once I was in the workplace I found a career that played to my profile and excelled

AtiaoftheJulii · 30/05/2022 22:07

While I was reading your post I thought it sounded like ADHD as my eldest dd has it, and had similar issues at university - she had a year out as she was getting so depressed due to her undiagnosed/untreated ADHD. She had an educational diagnosis via the university student support services but couldn’t sort herself out to access the help on offer. We went private, she got diagnosed and medicated and went back to university, used the support available and got a good degree (doing finals at home during covid), and most importantly is back to her previous happy self. Having a proper answer and using the meds to make life easier has been a hugely positive step for her.

Good luck x
(if you want to talk more, feel free to pm me)

poetryandwine · 30/05/2022 22:09

Yes, OP, an ADHD diagnosis is often missed in girls. But only an expert can make it. I appreciate the POs who are telling you what a difference getting diagnosed has made to their lives or the lives of their DC. I too have seen this play out happily. But other hypotheses raised here, from the possibility of long covid brought up by @Lentils to the suggestions by PPs that your DD may be finding the course unsuitable for more typical reasons, are also worth considering. I don’t know whether you can do anything to expedite the ADHD evaluation?

I am very sorry that the uni counselling service was unsatisfactory. This is sadly typical. I don’t think it will change until students and their parents start demanding better and maybe making the government aware of just how bad it is.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 30/05/2022 22:16

I was recently diagnosed with ADHD (inattentive) at the grand old age of 42. I did really well at school - straight As at GCSE and A Level. I struggled a bit with my degree but got there in the end.

I only remember doing well at school, but when I looked through my old school reports, I was shocked at how often my teachers said that I was disorganised and easily distracted. Perhaps look back through her old reports, looking for any common themes?

CoastalWave · 30/05/2022 22:23

At school she did well academically, achieving A stars, so we are confused why she can't cope with university. She told me that she got through A levels because the work was so easy and she could get away with doing everything last minute.

Sadly this is why the current system is a bloody disgrace. It's far too easy to get A's and A stars. I have a friend who still works at the Uni we both went to (back in the 90's) and he says the majority of students now who get in just aren't as bright as they were. 4 A's used to mean something - now it's just the norm as pretty much everyone gets those grades. Therefore, because Uni's haven't changed and still are tough courses, pupils just aren't able to cope and have been basically misled about how bright they are. I'm sorry if that sounds like I'm being rude, but I think somewhere along the line we've been misleading children for years about their actual academic abilities. Nothing wrong with stopping after A levels and getting into work. Apprenticeships can be amazing.

My son has ADHD. It's been obvious since he was a baby/toddler. I can't really imagine she's got this far without it being picked up? Either by school or by yourself at home. Honestly, you would know if your child had ADHD. How you describe how she finds studying hard, getting distracted and procrastinating, actually just sounds like someone who has never been taught how to study.

What does she want to do? What is she studying Biology for? She has to find her own path and her own passion - that's the key.

AtiaoftheJulii · 30/05/2022 22:39

My son has ADHD. It's been obvious since he was a baby/toddler. I can't really imagine she's got this far without it being picked up? Either by school or by yourself at home. Honestly, you would know if your child had ADHD.

Girls are well known to present very differently to boys. I didn’t know. I knew I had a lively, chatty, easily distracted kid, who was late to school at least 2 days out of 5, whose homework was usually late, who finished every last piece of A level coursework at the deadline (but then got full marks or almost full marks for all of it), who thrived on being busy …. and I thought that was just her. When she got out of the structure of school, she floundered, not because she didn’t know how to study - because she can do all that, make revision notes, plan essays, dissect an argument, etc - but because she didn’t know how to just actually start doing things, or planning a timetable for the week, or all those logistical mechanical issues.

Calmdown14 · 30/05/2022 22:43

Do you think the course is right for her? It sounds like she has done well in more structured learning environments.
Biology isn't really like this. Something like an allied health professional where it is clearer what you are learning, when and why might suit her better. More directed study.

Honestly, she's not cut out for academia. It's incredibly tough, short contracts etc and a PhD for a non self motivator isn't happening.

Does she genuinely want academia or is it more that she has no experience of anything else?

She really needs a job. She needs to experience what she does - and more importantly doesn't- want in her future.

I do a self managed job and it's a struggle at times to get going. That's fairly normal.

Sometimes the less we do the less we are able to do. She needs a gentle push to find some work, get out of her comfort zone and build her confidence.

Worst case if she doesn't go back, she could use her existing credits at the open university and finish later.

I'd keep the October return on the table but focus on something else for a few months and then review it

justasking111 · 30/05/2022 22:52

Willowcat77 · 30/05/2022 21:21

Yes, however I'm worried they might dismiss it because it wasn't very obvious when she was a child. She was so quiet that she totally slipped under the radar at school. The teachers barely noticed she existed. Is this common in girls? The usual adhd stereotype is so different...

This is my DS he got help from university paid for a private consultation over the phone and received a diagnosis. Just being told he had a type of ADHD lifted a weight off him it was his Eureka moment. Try the Spire, BUPA to get a consultation. He's such a quiet lad school never picked it up. I suspected during a level revision at home. A degree is much more intense work wise.

Calmdown14 · 30/05/2022 23:13

And whether she has ADHD, finishes uni or drops out, she really needs something to put on her CV.

She is now what, 22? You really do need to be careful that she doesn't push herself hard to finish only to find she can't get work.

Any job, even part time, will give her context for interview questions. Even if she gets a first, she'll struggle to stand out with nothing else, especially if she's shy and not self promoting.

She may suddenly find she's brilliant working with people or patients rather than paperwork.

I did a PGCE after uni (in hindsight because I didn't know what else to do). I struggled but pushed through but when it came to applying for jobs I felt sick not excited. Got a job for a few years then went back and did a professional post grad. It was might and day and I loved studying again but it was intense and focused on a specific end goal I actually wanted.

I just wonder if the psychology and pressure of what is tied up in the degree (in her mind) is contributing to the fear of failure and so she's shutting down.

A bit of real world and a degree only being one factor in success or happiness may give her perspective

Willowcat77 · 30/05/2022 23:48

@Calmdown14 Thanks for your posts, which I've found helpful. I agree, she really needs some work experience - yes she is 22. I have tried to encourage her to try harder to find something but she is very wary; she is very shy and has crippling social anxiety due to being Autistic (nhs diagnosis as a teenager). I'm thinking of asking one of the local farmers if they'd give her some work experience in their farm.

OP posts:
ComplexNeeds · 31/05/2022 00:59

You do realise that quite a number of people with Autistic Spectrum Disorder also have ADHD?
It is incredibly easy to miss adhd in girls , especially the inattentive type. They’re amazing at masking. From what you have said it does sound highly likely that this could be the issue. Plus some of the signs of ADHD may have been misinterpreted as ASD as there’s a bit of crossover. People who don’t understand the condition, imagine the symptoms are like those of naughty boisterous boys. This is very dated and incorrect. Unfortunately medication is trial and error so even with a diagnosis it may take a while to get it right. Have a look at the website ‘ADDitude’

HannahDefoesTrenchcoat · 31/05/2022 13:37

I have neurodiverse young adult DC so I get it.

but Blummin ‘eck OP the ASD diagnosis puts things in a different light and you may have got some more tailored advice if you had mentioned it earlier?

Does she have DSA (disabled student allowance)? If so has she got a support package and someone from Disabled Student office involved? Has she got an emotional support person who is a ND specialist and a academic/planning/organisation support person?

an ADD diagnosis may help her to understand her difficulties further but ASD often involves processing issues and the anxiety makes life very tough. Has she been living at university or at home? The day to day tasks can be draining plus trying to negotiate social demands and masking is exhausting too.

I know a young woman who just about scraped a degree pass after lots of resits who went on successfully to do a digital comms apprenticeship in civil service. Animal ideas - nursing assistant then in service vet nurse training? Although vet practices can be pressurised places with distressing situations.
conservation/National trust volunteering, seasonal work, apprenticeships - there are some really interesting opportunities supporting population surveys of threatened species, rewilding, sustainable grazing, water quality etc.

I have ND kids “underperforming” academically or not fulfilling their academic potential. Both very bright but one will be doing a resit in August due to the pressure, is hoping for OK rather than stellar degree and has decided PhD definitely not on cards. The other is doing slightly niche AHP/health science training that they are technically overqualified for but we hope the vocational training and structure will help.

in terms of intellectual ability my DC look as if they “could have done better” but in fact they are managing their disabilities which affect all areas of life and can get harder as they get older and other adults and the world makes fewer allowances.

good luck

Xenia · 31/05/2022 14:31

The June private appointment might help . It also seems worth trying to get back in the Autumn and finishing the last year if she can possibly manage it as with a degree graduate opportunities then open up for her. My oldest son had to stop his 3rd year after the 1 st term as dissertation work late, restarted in the Autumn, gave me (his choice) access to all his deadlines and email account at university (not something I would ever want really but he needed helpo with remembering deadline), lived at home and drove to the university for his lectures - an hour's drive for him in his car - again not ideal at all but at least he got his degree and is very pleased he managed it.

TheTeenageYears · 31/05/2022 16:15

Thehouseofmarvels · 30/05/2022 13:48

I have combined type ADHD. It sounds like it could be ADHD. Please go private if you can afford it. I have a degree because I studied art. I have an IQ of nearly 160 but dread to think about how I would have struggled with an academic degree. Basically people with ADHD but higher IQ's can often mask for so long but eventually our strategies don't work any more.

I only have one case to go on but I think the threshold for someone with a high IQ to be diagnosed with ADHD is higher too which means it can be missed. An IQ test before an assessment is necessary for an accurate diagnosis. I know someone who was tested twice before they were diagnosed with ADHD because they didn't know in the previous tests that he had a high IQ.

3luckystars · 31/05/2022 16:22

Is she getting assistance from the disability team at university before her autism?

(that was a fairly major thing to have left out of your earlier posts)

good luck anyway.

Sciency · 31/05/2022 16:41

It sounds like she is totally overwhelmed. Could she try meditation? This might clear her head and relax her. I always feel addressing mental health must come first.
Then could you work out a plan with her? Maybe going back to her assignment when it started to go wrong and work through methodically so she can get the study skills. That is if she has access to her University site. This could help?

GoodThinkingMax · 31/05/2022 17:08

I mention this because a number of responders started to wonder about the MH of the student in question. I have sat on many Mitigating Circumstances panels and I wrote something about, the single most frequent mistake we see is that students limp from one term to the next, failing to sort their problems. Their performance and often their health goes downhill all the while. It is much better to take the time to sort yourself properly, regain your health and finish strong. Or occasionally to start over somewhere else.

Totally agree with @poetryandwine (and yes, I'm an old lag of an academic).

Some thoughts @Willowcat77 in no particular order:

There may be a case for a year's leave of absence/intercalation. (This might be your last resort, but as @poetryandwine says, it is so frustrating (and actually painful) as an academic, watching kids clinging on to the idea that "if I just have this one extra week, everything will be alright"

She may need to really think about study skills. If she's in the habit from A Levels of doing things the night before This.Will.Not Work. at university. She needs to go to the bit of Student Guidance/Counselling etc which deals with study skills.

University work requires steady application.

It is not too hard for her - we don't design courses that students will fail. We want them to learn!!! If she was accepted into the course, it's with the assumption she has the ability to complete it.

OTOH, she may not be getting the equivalents to As or A*s at A Level in a 2nd year BSc course - she may be achieving grades at a low 2, i or a 2, ii level - is this what worries her?

If I ruled the world universities I would seriously look at not awarding grades at all - but give students narrative feedback about the ways in which they demonstrate what they've learned. But some may say that I'm a dreamer ...

There is a BIG step up from 1st to 2nd year - for some students, it's probably as much of an adjustment as 6th Form to 1st year university. And COVID has made it all more difficult. My undergrads were all just so happy to back - I've never taught a year group so ungrumpy and pleased just to be in the room!

I've just read a subsequent post re her ND - does this come with perfectionism? And is her cleverness/ease of learning etc one of the things that makes her feel valuable and "normal" (horrible word). She may need extra study guidance - it sounds as though she's capable of the actual learning, but is finding the environment difficult.

She might try 'chunking it' - setting a 30 minute alarm on her phone, deciding what she'll do in that 30 minutes, do it, take a break. Start over. Making a plan so that she gets a good 3 to 4 hours of work done, but has breaks, and a schedule.

Studying is like training to run a marathon - you don't run the 26 miles the first time you put on your trainers. You build up. It takes time.

Good luck Flowers

GoodThinkingMax · 31/05/2022 17:14

She says she wants to work with animals but not sure how realistic this is in the circumstances.

If she's ND, working with animals is a great way to calm down and learn about taking things gently & step by step. What about a year just working as a stable lad, or on a farm, or something like that? Or even a holiday with the National Trust repaving the footpaths in the Lake District - something that's quite tough physically.

A year out, as @titchy says, won't mess up finances, but it could be something about the university regulations for her degree course. These should be publicly available read them, and sort through what is possible.

Does she do some sort of physical exercise? Something where all she can do is focus on getting her next breath? Getting into a situation of "flow" with a musical instrument, or swimming laps, or running, or climbing trees - something that gets her into her body, in a way that forces her to be in the moment? (I'm NT, but it's the only way I survive the intensity of brain-work as an academic).

Integration of mind & body might just help her slow down, and take things step by step. Physical exercise, getting out of bed at the same time each day, routine, are all important in self-care for mental & physical health.