Advice please regarding the wisdom of re-applying

[Niceday203]

DC has two offers -but rejected from preferred three Unis - UCL being the favourite. Now he tells me he was to decline the two offers take a gap year and reapply for 2023 . Predicted A, A A, selective private school student.
I have no experience of how this works - and would be grateful for any advice, experience of others.
I cannot understand what advantages reapplying will offer.
Will he not be less appealing to Unis after a year out?

He has a couple of weeks to decide but I am so worried he will miss his opportunities for good by doing this .

One more question, I think that he needs to reply to his two offers by early June, one firm and one insurance , but this seems so early when they don't even know what grades they got. Are you held to these decisions after results day? Is it possible to accept do the exams , see how you get on and then if he really feels he has achieved better and stands a good chance next year to decline after results day? Sorry if this is a stupid question, I am not British and do not understand the details of this system
Thank you for any advice

Speak to someone at your DS school , they will be best placed to advise you

Partly depends on subject but Maths is one subject area where a gap year may be offputting.

He can reapply via UCAS in September, grades in hand, and get unconditional offers. Most unis are fine with this, especially if the ps demonstrates relevant plans . School just have to update their reference.

However he can form/insure now and decide on results day or at any point until term starts. Alternatively he could request a deferral on results day if he wants the same uni/course but not all will agree to one or even decide until September.

Yes he does have to accept the offers before the first week of June otherwise they will be withdrawn. However he doesn't actually have to enrol at those unis if he doesn't want to - he can certainly wait till he has his results and then tell them he's changed his mind.

One more question, I think that he needs to reply to his two offers by early June, one firm and one insurance , but this seems so early when they don't even know what grades they got.

That's why you keep hold of two offers. If you already had your grades you would only need to hold one offer that you met the conditions for.

Are you held to these decisions after results day? Is it possible to accept do the exams , see how you get on and then if he really feels he has achieved better and stands a good chance next year to decline after results day?

Offers are binding on the university but not on the student. You can decline your offers and release yourself into Clearing. However, you can't decline your firm to go to your insurance unless you have explicit permission from the insurance choice.

www.ucas.com/undergraduate/results-confirmation-and-clearing/what-clearing/declining-your-firm-place

Will he not be less appealing to Unis after a year out?

No. It will be more straightforward because he will already have his grades when he applies. If he is made an offer it will be unconditional, so he won't need an insurance choice and won't spend next summer fretting about whether he'll get in. The downside is that he will graduate a year later than most of his friends, but he will make new friends at university so that's not usually a big problem. Gap years can easily disappear in the smoke of vague intentions, so if he's going to university a year later he should make definite plans for how he's going to make that year worthwhile. If it's obvious he's going to spend a year on the PlayStation I suppose that might make him less appealing to competitive universities. I don't think most have any systematic approach to evaluating applicants' gap years, though.

Former Russell Group admissions tutor here. All the advice above is good, but I think the best thing would be to consult with admissions tutors for the degree programmes your DS is particularly keen to attend.

Certainly Maths but also a few other STEM subjects discourage gap years; however as PPs have said, one’s plans for the year can sometimes make a difference. Good luck to your DS

What is the course? I think it makes a lot of difference as some are less predictable than others.

A lot depends on the course and how oversubscribed it is. Next year there will be less applicants with TAGs so if he does achieve A * A A and has strong GCSE results, he may get an offer next year.
he might as well accept the offers he has as if he changes his mind after he gets his results, he doesn’t need to take the place, if he doesn’t achieve his predicted grades, he will have declined the offers he now has and spray still not be a competitive applicant next year.
Some courses like Economics, Law, Medicine, International Relations, Computer Science Psychology are always going to be highly competitive and highly oversubscribed. These courses can have between 10-25 applicants per place.

Thank you so much everyone, really helpful. He wants to study English Literature, not sure if that makes a difference ?
Also I understand that after results everyone goes through clearing but is that only if you

1. have not had any offer from your 5 chosen unis
2. have declined your existing offers
3. if your grades are good can you be offered places in line with higher grades?

again thanks to all for your patience and advice I have read pages of UCAS advice and find it hard to decipher

For English lit a gap year shouldn’t be a problem, but you should have a conversation with him about what he’d do next year if he was in the same position without the offers from his preferred. Is it that he doesn’t like his offers currently or he just wants another try at his favourite?

Youre correct about clearing - if he didn’t get the grades for either firm or insurance he’d go straight in, or if he declines his offers either before Results Day or on the day he can do Clearing.

The other thing would be to make sure he has a decent plan for his gap year, including something that keeps relevant skills up to date - he’ll need to include this on his personal statement ideally.

Also I understand that after results everyone goes through clearing but is that only if you
have not had any offer from your 5 chosen unis
have declined your existing offers
if your grades are good can you be offered places in line with higher grades?

1 & 2 - Yes. If you have been accepted by your firm or insurance choice you have to release yourself into Clearing by declining the offers.

3 - No. There used to be a process called Adjustment to allow you to do this but UCAS abandoned it this year because so few people understood it. In Adjustment you could hold on to your offers for a short period while you tried to find a course with higher conditions than the offers you were holding that would take you with the higher grades. Now if you want to do this you have to decline your current offers and use Clearing.

I did it a long while ago - accepted my lowest offer as a back up. Then got good grades and reapplied and got the course I wanted English lit. I spent my year off wisely half working half travel!

Thanks all. This really helps. SometimesRaven, he really wants to try for his favourite - in this case UCL - course requires AAA apparently. He feels he will achieve higher and that the knock on effect of Covid deferrals etc will be less so he stands a better chance
if he doesn’t get it after reapplying he says he will take what he is offered but he wants to know he exhausted all his chances of getting in

Not sure I agree with him but trying to be supportive and to understand the consequences of his decision

very grateful for all the very kind and generous sharing of advice on here

I'd really encourage a year out. He should do something useful (not the gap yah! stuff), and he'll have accomplished grades in hand for re-application via UCAS. And he'll have another year of maturity under his belt and be really motivated to study. A year off the educational treadmill is generally a good thing; there is something to be said for getting an undemanding job that gives him a bit of a look at the world beyond school and study.

EngLit is a slow-cooker type of degree. Whatever he does, he should be reading, reading, reading, and develop his tastes over a wide range of literature.

DC is in similar boat. We were told by selective school not to reapply unless 3A*s were achieved, because loads of others would be re-applying and you would not get a look in if you don't get the top marks even if the course only required AAA. This is for non-stem course.

One thing to bear in mind is that from 2023 the student finance system is changing so that graduates will start to pay back any loans for fees & maintenance when they earn over £25k approx (currently £27/28k approx) and will pay back for 40 rather than 30 years. So if he will be taking loans, he could potentially end up paying a lot more money in the long run by taking a gap year. Think there's more info on moneysavingexpert.com or just Google student finance.

The advantage of reapplying comes into play if you exceed predicted grades but don't want the last minute fuss of clearing or if they want time to rethink their options. Some universities will marginally drop grade requirements for candidates with grades too. Perhaps he just wants a gap year?

You have always had to put in firm offers before grades are announced

@ILIWYS It really depends on what your DC ends up doing and how much they earn (by the sounds of it, the OP's DS will be one of the winners from the new scheme).

The IFS did some research that the new scheme is better for all students overall (yes longer time to pay, but lower interest rates), but will hurt those graduates who remain lower earners over their career.

What really shocked me - the IFS also found that the new scheme hurts women more, since they tend to take some time out of work /maternity leave. I quote!!! >> On average, men will repay around £3,800 less towards their student loans under the new system, whereas women will pay £11,600 more.

If anyone is interested this is the analysis that the IFS did and how the burden is distributed: ifs.org.uk/publications/15953

They also have an amazing calculator that's far better at showing how much your DC will realistically pay back (much better than MSE one): ifs.org.uk/student-finance-calculator

FWIW, last year my DS held an offer at Bath (not his top choice) got the grades and got accepted, chose accommodation and then decided around September 10th to turn it down and reapply to ones further up his list. It was easily done (don't forget to cancel the finance! Also easily done) AND he got another offer from Bath again this year so they didn't 'hold it against him'. I think a lot of stuff to do with admissions is just automated these days. I don't think they go comparing lists from this year and last year, etc ..

Hi @kitnkaboodle - did he have better luck with his real grades in hand? Good to hear the process is relatively straightforward. RE the finance - did they penalise him for backing out of accommodation at all?

Dd is in the year above your ds and is currently on a gap year. She's been doing a job for 30 hours (ish) a week. Her main motivations for a gap year were money and a break from academics and she's now looking forward to starting uni this autumn.

Your son is going into big debt for his degree and I understand why he'd like a second shot as his favourite so he's not left thinking "what if?" If he's got some ideas for his gap year then it could be a good idea. This year dd has had lots of life experience at work and it's done her the world of good.

@Lentils yes - he has an offer from Bristol this time too, which was his preference above Bath, so it has worked out 🙂. No penalties at all for backing out of accommodation and finance. Regarding accommodation, he withdrew within the acceptable timeline and regarding the finance ... it just didn't matter as he hadn't been paid anything at that point

Definitely firm and unsure the two offers he has to keep his options open. He may feel differently on results day and there is no guarantee that he will exceed the grades. If he smashes it then he can have a rethink and withdraw.

He should also be mindful that we have no idea what the “fallout” of this exam
cycle is going to be - we could end up with more highly publicised grade inflation so 3 A star grades in hand won’t be viewed as exceptional…..or private schools could end up with a disproportionate amount of top grades (due to better online learning provision during the pandemic ) which could lead to a flood of reapplications from private school candidates next year making it more difficult for him to stand out.

Fantastic for your DS @kitnkaboodle ! Good to hear some positive stories and that he got his first choice in the end!

Kitnkaboodle, that is great to read, thank you for posting. My DS firmed and insured his two choices. he tells me he really doesn't want to take them and still feels sure he will want to re-apply for 2023 entry. He did get this back from his firm choice " Cancellation rights: If you accept our offer of a place on a course as your Firm or Insurance choice, a contract is made between you and the University. If you change your mind, you can change your replies but only within 14 days of accepting the offer ........ After the 14 day period, it may still be possible to do this, but you will need to contact us and UCAS to arrange this."
It is the bit that says it may still be possible -am I not understanding - this looks like he will have difficulty if he does decide on results day this really isn't what he wants and he withdraws to try again next year?