Degree apprenticeship living 3 hours from home at 18?

[JessicaLL]

Hi our DS is in the fortunate position of having been offered two apprenticeships in IT so has now decided against uni where he was going to study Computer Science. One is a level 4 apprenticeship so not degree level but based in London which is commuting distance so he’d still live at home. The other is a degree apprenticeship but he would be based 3 hours away so would be living away, working full time and studying for a degree for 4 years. He’s really torn. Both were very competitive processes. I’m not influencing his decision at all but am a little worried about the degree apprenticeship in that doing all three - moving out, studying and working full time may be too much. The London company have said that he could progress to do a degree later with them depending on his performance but he’d probably need to finish the level 4 first so in 2/3 years time. Both are huge companies. He does want to eventually get a degree as he’s worried not having one may hold him back. Ideally he’d love a degree apprenticeship in London which he has applied for through a few companies but is still waiting to hear about. But assuming he just gets these two offers then he needs to decide between them. We’re so confused. Does anyone have any advice please? Thanks

Surely most 18 year old that go to university go far away from home. It's part of the experience.

I think at 18 most people are ready to cope with moving out and studying/working full time. Personally I couldn't wait to do it. But everyone is different. I'd only say moving out of home is a good thing and 3 hours is neither here nor there. Most people going to uni go sonewhere 3 hours away. It must be hard but don't discourage him from finding his independence.

Are there SEN involved? If so, I can understand your concern about whether he will be able to manage independently. Otherwise, I'd say he'll be fine, it's what most 18yos do.

Agree with others - I can't see how doing the degree apprenticeship 3 hours away is massively different to university - the study/work ratio will be different, that's all. The hard part will be social as he won't get the built in social scene that he would at university, but he might well find that he needed to build a whole new social group even if he stayed at home (as likely many of his friends will be going to university). And, he may well think that not living at home has a lot of positives :)

Degree apprenticeships are so hard to get onto, I'd encourage him to take it, I think.

Is the degree apprenticeship IBM? My daughter got through with them but they never actually offered her anything degree level so that was annoying. They don’t guarantee. She is now doing the degree apprenticeship with McDonalds and loving it.
I know students usually live away but I think that is different. At university they are all in the same boat, all starting a course at the same time. Most of them will be the same age. However, they may be the only person in an office on a degree apprenticeship and maybe the only young person. I think that can be a lot to take on.

I’d say do the degree apprenticeship. I think if he does the level 4 he may not qualify for a degree level apprenticeship afterwards as you need to be unemployed and not qualified in the subject to get on. And it would be 5/6 years to achieve what could be otherwise done in 3/4

Go for degree level over location, assuming there is are affordable digs available.

On reflection though apprenticeships are minimum wage so perhaps paying for rent etc is unrealistic without additional support that could be found in a university setting

@JessicaLL
I do understand your concern. He would not be a typical undergrad going into a hall of residence with loads of other 18 year olds. He may not get a place in a hall of residence, so where will he live? And with whom? No one posting above seems to get the difference.

In order to choose, I would ask the company 300 miles away about where he should live and whether they help young employees with their accommodation. University students gef lots of help and advice. Try and find out what an apprentice might get.

Regarding London: weigh up earnings and potential for advancement. How long does he want to live at home? What are his friends doing?

He cannot do a degree and work full time. The apprentices must get time off to study so have another look at what he’s expected to do. He should be doing a mix of work and lectures (as a nurse might).

He was only offered the degree one a few days ago so is awaiting further info, but yes we need to check where he’d be living and do they help with that, how many apprentices his age etc. You’re right in that you can’t compare it to living away at uni. He’d also have a lot less disposable income as he’d be spending it on rent, food etc. Such a hard decision.

How much would he be getting paid and can he afford to move out for the degree apprenticeship and still afford to live and save for future property etc?

My own experience of dd doing a school leaver apprenticeship in a different field is that the wages are great, she's saving up to buy her own place at the end of the 5 years but wouldn't be able to do that if she also had to pay rent etc. they get study leave etc but do have to do a lot of study in their own time.

So I guess it's balancing costs and future plans for savings etc that I would be considering.

I’d get your DC to ask the degree apprenticeship employer how many other apprentices are starting as that will be his support network, also ask if they provide additional support if moving away from home.

It may be possible to move into halls (my DC knows someone who did). That would be a big help.

If at all possible I’d go with the degree apprenticeship it’s a fantastic opportunity. V hard work though.

I'd be concerned too OP. Going to uni en masse is very different from a lone 18 year old making his way on a degree apprenticeship.

Agree with Tizer, you need to dig a bit to see what support the company offer, if not, could you look for family to take him in for his first year while he gets on his feet a bit? Hopefully by year 2 he will have made friends.

When I finished Uni I rented a room in a house owned by a family and ate with them a few days a week. I am still in touch with a couple of them 30 odd years on. 12 months on he will have made friends, maybe at lectures where there will be other people in the same boat.

I have experience of a masters degree apprenticeship, you do not work full time and study, masters students were required to spend 20% of their work time on their masters plus some study in their own time. I wouldn't discount the level 4 either though, there's more than one route to a degree.

My DS did something similar to this- he’s doing a degree but it involves working and training at the same time. He had to find his own flatshare at very short notice. He was determined to sort everything out for himself, so went to look at places on his own. To be honest where he ended up wasn’t great, but he learned a lot of life skills from it and after a few months rented a flat with someone he met doing the same course as him.
There’s always the option of private halls.

DS is doing a degree apprenticeship in aeronautical engineering 3 hours from home - he started last September. The assessment process was rigorous - congratulations to your DS. The company put the successful applicants in touch with each other and he rents a house with 3 others. He is paid - not a huge salary but enough to cover the rent, run a car and live life. This is his first year and was based in college which meant he came home for the holidays. That is about to end and at the end of this term he will go straight to work. For the 2nd year, they are in uni 1 day and 2 evenings and in work 4 days - the older apprentices say year 2 is the hardest.

i totally understand your concerns - my DS is the youngest in the year and was 18 and 1 week when he went! There have been some domestic hiccups - shrunken washing, narrowly avoided food poisoning - but he is loving it and managing far better than I expected. It helps that they are all in the same boat. He still considers our home ‘home’ and refers to ‘coming home’ and ‘going back. He knew this was what he wanted to do and we are all glad he is avoiding the significant uni debt his siblings have!

@JessicaLL
I think he needs to ask questions about accommodation with the employer. Whether he’s better off really depends on starting salary and expenses. Does he need to run a car for example?

I have a DC who started a school leaver apprenticeship immediately after A level results last summer at a location five hours away. Opportunities like this can be amazing but are not for the faint hearted. It is not at all 'like going to uni' and your DS needs to be prepared to build up a social network from scratch without a lot of structured support.

For your DS to make an informed choice, he and you need to get lots of information, fast.

Go onto Moneysavingexpert and use the income and NI tax calculator to get an idea of what his gross pay translates into monthly net pay. This is your budgeting start point.

Your DC should contact the HR team who issued his offer to say he would like to clarify what practical support is available in relation to accommodation; this is unlikely to be monetary but they will understand why he is asking the question and will most likely put him in touch with his intended team leader and existing apprentices who may have already dealt with the same issue at the same location. There may an existing employee who can help with regards accommodation, have contacts or at least advise on locations to consider and other practical points.

Your DC (with your help) needs to start getting an online feel for what property is available at what price (room in family home, room in shared rental etc).

Private halls may be available but only if the location is a university city or town and may not be ideal if he needs to be at his desk at 8am every weekday and fellow residents do not.

A point to note is that apprentices earning over £195pw are usually liable to council tax so you may need to factor that into budgeting, depending on what is or is not included in any rental arrangement.

Apprentices get time off for study (sometimes one day a week; sometimes block release) and whilst some of this may involve physical attendance at a university, lots of study will be in their home so they may well need space for a desk in their rented bedroom (ie not in shared communal space).

It all might sound a bit daunting but pulling together the information flagged above will help your DS get a sense of whether it will all work from a practical perspective and whether this is something they really want to do.

Thank you @PerpetualOptimist , that is really helpful advice as my son is about to embark on something similar so I really appreciate it.

Thanks everyone for your help and advice. He has actually this evening been offered another degree apprenticeship which is in London so he’s going up accept that and commute from home. We are all very happy and I feel very relieved! I think/hope this will be the best option for him.

That’s great news Jessica. That sounds like the best of all worlds.

my DC moved away from home to do engineering apprenticeship. Most of the other apprentices lived at home. DC lived in lodgings first then shared houses with people that were working as the council tax was an issue for halls and student houses. It was very expensive on apprentice wages and we supported financially.

DC did finally decide to go to uni as getting to be a chartered engineer was going to take ages. It’s not been plain sailing due to the pandemic obviously.

it is hard work studying part time at a high level. It takes a lot of discipline but then you learn loads in the workplace and have the mixture of knowledge and skills to be very employable.

@HannahDefoesTrenchcoat
Love your name!

I think young people are poorly advised about engineering. If you don’t do a MEng it will take years and years to get chartered. No one explains this. BEng is the slow route and leads to Incorporated status. Young people and their families don’t know the difference and the salary difference between chartered and incorporated engineers can be very significant. Young people do not understand the difference and I’m not sure many apprenticeships offer MEng. They look good in the first few years but can limit earnings in the future.

In my mind, the advantage of doing a degree apprenticeship is the level of work experience and soft skills a student will be acquiring at the same time.

In the (hopefully unlikely) event that they decide that they hate the subject or the sponsoring co, they will leave with some useful work experience on their CV.

We're still a couple of years off making the Uni decision, but the companies offering this seem to have at least 50+ students in each intake.

Presumably they are still eligible for a student loan to help with living costs (and does the employer pay the tuition fees)?

TizerorFizz that’s helpful information and reassuring. The engineering apprenticeship was sold as an alternative to university but for engineering or the sort of engineering DC is interested it wasn’t really. DC kept poking head into R&D department and they were supportive and helpfully clear about quickest route to chartered status. It would not have been impossible via day release but nearly!

Madcats apprentices are paid, some better than others. Employers usually pay fees. To the best of my knowledge they would not qualify for student loans so it can be difficult to live away on apprentice wages.

@HannahDefoesTrenchcoat
For any young person who is good enough for MEng at a very good university they really do need to do their homework on salaries and outcomes such as chartered status. I’m glad your DS got good advice. It’s important and teachers don’t know the differences.

@Madcats
As far as I am aware, apprentices are employees so they get a salary. They are not eligible for student loans as far as I am aware. As I’ve said above, check the degree and decide if you are better off aiming higher. I’m aware some apprenticeships are good but some are slow.

Skills gained without a degree, in say engineering, won’t help much. Students need the MEng or BEng plus masters to get chartered. It’s a bit like saying experience as a nurse for 2 years will help you get a job as a doctor. Just like that profession, engineers need the high level qualifications.

@JessicaLL wow well done to your DS. Can I ask how he found out about these opportunities?

I have a year 9 and would like to get a vague plan together