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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

Could I ask a probably daft question about firm and insurance choices?

42 replies

Champagneforeveryone · 24/04/2022 00:33

Neither DH or I went to university proper so we're not really in a position to advise DS. I'm sure the answer is quite simple, but we are completely blind to it at this point!

DS has offers from 4 of his 5 choices and has been somewhat startled to get an offer for Kings College in London. He had expected a rejection and had decided in his head he would accept Queen Mary's instead, as they were asking for AAB and he would still get to study in London. Now Kings have offered him a place on a closely related course (which he is happy to do) at AAA.

Ideally he would put Queen Mary's as firm and Kings as insurance, however if he doesn't get Queen Mary's then he won't get Kings. If he puts Kings as firm and then gets AAA he will then be liable to attend.

Frankly I would prefer if he went to a nice uni, a short car drive away in a pretty city but the choice is not mine. He is desperate to see some of the big wide world having grown up quite rurally all his life and fair play to him.

He is going to speak to staff at college in the week but any advice or pointers would be greatly appreciated 🙂

OP posts:
titchy · 24/04/2022 22:27

I'm guessing he's been geared up to a life at QM and this has thrown him. In which case he needs to take a break, reflect, try and imagine himself at KCL the way he has imagined himself at QM. He doesn't have to make a decision for a good few weeks so he shouldn't.

Insuring KCL with QM as firm would be pointless - there are situations where insuring a same or one grade higher place is sensible btw (eg if firm is ABB but never takes a dropped grade while the insurance is AAB but always goes into clearing asking for BBB) - this isn't it though - QM far more likely to accept one grade lower than KCL.

His firm needs to be what his heart wants. Sounds like he's off to London though. Good luck to him, he'll have a ball!

Original poster
Champagneforeveryone · 25/04/2022 00:22

I think you're exactly right titchy, he was set on QM as he'd set himself up not to get into KC.

We've had another chat tonight and he's going to speak to his lovely politics teacher tomorrow to see if she can offer any advice. Interestingly he said that, although he knew he could seek advice from the 6th form team, he just wouldn't - perhaps he is equally aware of their dastardly ways 😆

He's leaning towards KC now with QM as insurance. Logically I know that KC is the "better" option (a colleagues partner studied at QM and she described the area as "murderous") but I think he would be happy with either.

And yes, right again titchy! It will be London or nothing and secretly I've known that from the start.

OP posts:
WyfOfBathe · 25/04/2022 00:37

I would firm kings - on the grounds he will attempt to swap courses to straight politics once he was in. I reckon it’s likely. I went to a similar tier uni and people did the same

I would not do that. I'm a secondary school teacher and two of my ex-students ended up on alternative courses at Kings - they seem to offer alternative courses a lot. One was able to switch to the original course, but only by reapplying and restarting first year the next year. The other wasn't able to switch at all, and wasn't happy about it. Only firm Kings if he's definitely happy to do a degree in European politics.
**

SeasonFinale · 25/04/2022 01:21

Champagneforeveryone · 25/04/2022 00:22

I think you're exactly right titchy, he was set on QM as he'd set himself up not to get into KC.

We've had another chat tonight and he's going to speak to his lovely politics teacher tomorrow to see if she can offer any advice. Interestingly he said that, although he knew he could seek advice from the 6th form team, he just wouldn't - perhaps he is equally aware of their dastardly ways 😆

He's leaning towards KC now with QM as insurance. Logically I know that KC is the "better" option (a colleagues partner studied at QM and she described the area as "murderous") but I think he would be happy with either.

And yes, right again titchy! It will be London or nothing and secretly I've known that from the start.

The area around QMUL is not murderous -how ridiculous. Was she there in the 1870s?

I agree that KCL has the better reputation and that QMUL may even be good as an insurance as they MAY allow a dropped grade. However there will still be 35% A/A at a level this year even with exams so it may be a risky strategy.

However the big BUT is does he really want to do European Politics? Nothing would be worse than choosing a course you hadn't applied for thinking it will be OK or similar and it turns out not to be. There is just no guarantee that they will allow him to switch. The reason he is offered this course is that the other is oversubscribed.

Original poster
Champagneforeveryone · 25/04/2022 09:22

To be fair to her seasonfinale, we live in a beautiful and very desirable (but somewhat sleepy) area in the Southwest. I grew up in London but have lived here over 20 years, whereas she grew up here from birth. I can see how what some people would consider "edgy" or "vibrant" could easily look a lot worse to someone with her background.

Thankfully DS has inherited my highly developed sense of adventure and "what's the worst that can happen?" attitude so is undeterred by such things 😆

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 25/04/2022 10:02

Where does he really want to go to. Whichever that is then he should put that as firm choice.

Insurance doesn't have to offer lower grades but if the grades needed are higher ideally it should be somewhere that is known to allow a dropped grade or two.

poetryandwine · 25/04/2022 10:13

As a former Russell Gp admissions tutor, I’m writing to back up the warnings that choosing Kings under the assumption that a swap can be made won’t necessarily work. It might. My School was happy to be accommodate Y1 students from our University within the first few weeks when we could, but it is far from guaranteed and you have specific warnings about Kings. This is likely to be a highly competitive year with A levels moderated between 2019 results and the COVID years results.

I think your DS should choose between K - European Politics and QM - Politics in terms of his personal values. But his Ins choice absolutely must have lower requirements than his Firm.

LindaEllen · 25/04/2022 10:34

Forget about the firm/insurance thing for a moment. If he had to choose ONE of the offers, and he would be guaranteed a place, which would it be? That should be his firm.

If his firm is the lower offer, there's no point whatsoever putting King's as his insurance - he'd have to choose one of the others.

But your firm is the one that you really really want to go to, the insurance is a backup in case you don't get the grades.

NoNotHimTheOtherOne · 25/04/2022 10:49

As a former Russell Gp admissions tutor, I’m writing to back up the warnings that choosing Kings under the assumption that a swap can be made won’t necessarily work. It might. My School was happy to be accommodate Y1 students from our University within the first few weeks when we could, but it is far from guaranteed and you have specific warnings about Kings.

Couldn't agree more. Do not start a degree course on the basis of assumptions about what you'll be able to change when you get there. There might be flexibility over this if there are spaces on the preferred course, but there might not, and there will probably be dozens of other students wanting to do the same thing.

MarchingFrogs · 26/04/2022 07:14

NoNotHimTheOtherOne · 25/04/2022 10:49

As a former Russell Gp admissions tutor, I’m writing to back up the warnings that choosing Kings under the assumption that a swap can be made won’t necessarily work. It might. My School was happy to be accommodate Y1 students from our University within the first few weeks when we could, but it is far from guaranteed and you have specific warnings about Kings.

Couldn't agree more. Do not start a degree course on the basis of assumptions about what you'll be able to change when you get there. There might be flexibility over this if there are spaces on the preferred course, but there might not, and there will probably be dozens of other students wanting to do the same thing.

Hence my suggestion to look to see whether there is any related course currently still marked as 'open' at KCL that he likes the look of and if relevant, ask at this stage whether he could be considered for that instead of the currently offered alternative. Definitely not just accept the current offer in the assumption that the obviously more oversubscribed course originally applied for will miraculously become an option when he gets there.

Xenia · 26/04/2022 08:23

However I think he looked at the Kings European course and thought it was probably fine though, so in that basis and for future career I would pick Kings over QM.

Original poster
Champagneforeveryone · 27/04/2022 00:39

A quick update...

DS spoke to his politics teacher and after a minor amount of procrastination, has put Kings as his first choice. Now he's done it he seems excited, so it's probably just the enormity of the decision - when I think on it, it's the biggest decision he's ever had to make.

Thank you all for your input, it was really helpful and much appreciated 🙂

OP posts:
Lessofallthisunpleasantness · 27/04/2022 00:44

Yes, my kid has similar issue. Her favourite uni and course option offered AAB and the other two she is less keen on offered AAA. She only got 3 out of 5 offers. Odd position to be in. She is going to ask the uni person at school what to do. If not I guess we will search on The Student Room.

Ellmau · 27/04/2022 07:37

Good luck to him with his A levels!

titchy · 27/04/2022 09:39

Lessofallthisunpleasantness · 27/04/2022 00:44

Yes, my kid has similar issue. Her favourite uni and course option offered AAB and the other two she is less keen on offered AAA. She only got 3 out of 5 offers. Odd position to be in. She is going to ask the uni person at school what to do. If not I guess we will search on The Student Room.

Then she should put her favourite as firm. It leaves her no insurance, but clearing is of course an option.

NoNotHimTheOtherOne · 27/04/2022 10:00

Then she should put her favourite as firm. It leaves her no insurance, but clearing is of course an option.

I agree. Even when I went to university 40 years ago I put the one with the lowest offer as my first choice because I preferred the course and institution to the others with higher offers. The place with the highest entry requirements is not necessarily the best for that student.

If someone wants an insurance choice they need to include somewhere with lower entry requirements as one of their choices when they apply.

GetThatHelmetOn · 27/04/2022 17:37

Lessofallthisunpleasantness · 27/04/2022 00:44

Yes, my kid has similar issue. Her favourite uni and course option offered AAB and the other two she is less keen on offered AAA. She only got 3 out of 5 offers. Odd position to be in. She is going to ask the uni person at school what to do. If not I guess we will search on The Student Room.

Not an odd position at all, it all depends to what unis she applied to. I have heard parents proudly saying “he got offers from everywhere” as if it was a badge of honour. It is not.

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