Are placement/sandwich courses a good idea?

[Sawadeekaka]

My DD wants to study psychology at uni with her career aspiration to be a clinical psychologist eventually.
She's attracted to the unis which offer 3rd year work placements as clinical psych postgrad courses require practical experience. Seems like a good enough idea to me but I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on these kind of courses? Pros and cons?

I work in uni careers and would say there really aren't any drawbacks to a placement year. Graduates with work experience under their belt find themselves much more employable. For a field as competitive and over subscribed as psychology it's a no brainer.

Thank you @thebigpurpleone

A bit concerned some of the unis seem to leave the students to find the placements on their own. Do they have to provide support? Otherwise I wonder what the benefit is compared with working for a year once you have a psychology degree under your belt. I could only see if being advantageous if the uni actually actively helps you. Or am I missing something?

But not sure how we would find that out other than directly contacting the unis and speakign with students.

@Sawadeekaka

Thank you *@thebigpurpleone*

A bit concerned some of the unis seem to leave the students to find the placements on their own. Do they have to provide support? Otherwise I wonder what the benefit is compared with working for a year once you have a psychology degree under your belt. I could only see if being advantageous if the uni actually actively helps you. Or am I missing something?

But not sure how we would find that out other than directly contacting the unis and speakign with students.

The students will mainly have to find placements themselves but should have a placement coordinator who will help with cv's etc..... they will also have links with employers that should be advertised on the uni careers website.

It is good experience for students to go out and find their own placements, it is preparing them for the world of work but they will have advice and guidance from their coordinator. The coordinator can do interview practice etc.... with them as well.

It depends if the placement year is optional or mandatory. If optional students will have to find their own. I advise her to make sure the careers team is on her radar, they can help with where to find placements, feedback on applications etc. I would also suggest she starts volunteering in a related field if possible from first year. I cannot emphasise how competitive it is and a degree alone just isn't enough.

I didn't study psychology but I did study a degree where placements were mandatory and it does hugely set you apart post-graduation. It's absolutely worth doing as you have space to try things out in a work environment without already properly working there. And it generally gets your foot in the door.

@thebigpurpleone

It depends if the placement year is optional or mandatory. If optional students will have to find their own. I advise her to make sure the careers team is on her radar, they can help with where to find placements, feedback on applications etc. I would also suggest she starts volunteering in a related field if possible from first year. I cannot emphasise how competitive it is and a degree alone just isn't enough.

Thanks. I'll tell her to check this carefully as she does her elimination and short-listing. We know it's very competitive and I've warned her a few times to be realistic and to have a plan B. She's already volunteering teaching English with kids in a slum (we live in a developing country) - hopefully this would be considered relevant experience - and plans to continue volunteering when she goes to uni. She also thinks she'll do a masters as well so hopefully volunteering + placement + masters will make a competitive candidate for clinical psychology.

Placements are great but year in industry really competitive. I would ask specifically what proportion of your students who signed up for degree with year in industry secured one last year.
I know of a course where it was 2/60 last year and so far 3/60 this year. No help whatsoever from uni.
Bath and Loughborough are excellent and their students do get them.

Careers teams all have great web pages but differ hugely.

I did a psychology degree with a placement year. My plan was to be an educational psychologist and I spent a year with the educational psychology service. It was an amazing opportunity and I learnt so much. The most important thing I learnt was that educational psychology was not for me and in fact what I really wanted to do was teach in a special school. If I had not done that year I would have not found that out until I had started the training.

I did have to find my own placement but they gave us a list of places where people had gone before.

@lorisparkle

I did a psychology degree with a placement year. My plan was to be an educational psychologist and I spent a year with the educational psychology service. It was an amazing opportunity and I learnt so much. The most important thing I learnt was that educational psychology was not for me and in fact what I really wanted to do was teach in a special school. If I had not done that year I would have not found that out until I had started the training.

I did have to find my own placement but they gave us a list of places where people had gone before.

Hmm, that's true. Maybe she'd decide that clinical psychology isn't for her following a placement.

I am in STEM and taught at a highly regarded university for a long time. @thebigpurpleone and @Cuphalffullor have good advice. If the placement is mandatory the university is obliged to find your DD a place. But the universities that support their students best - and I agree this includes Bath and Loughborough - will give so much help that for students who show initiative, this hardly matters. I also agree Clinical Psych is so competitive that your DD should start her plans with well selected volunteering activities in Year 1. Best wishes to her

The thing about psychology is that there are so many highly contrasting routes you can take after your degree and many of those routes are highly competitive. A placement year can help solidify what you want to do and can give you the edge when you get there. I spent the year observing the educational psychologists, conducting research for them, visiting all the specialist educational facilities in the area, and conducting my own research. This experience was invaluable and gave me a head start in the career I chose - even though it was not educational psychology. Weirdly I have now got to a point in my career where I would look at being an educational psychologist but we can't afford for me to train!

@poetryandwine

I am in STEM and taught at a highly regarded university for a long time. *@thebigpurpleone and @Cuphalffullor* have good advice. If the placement is mandatory the university is obliged to find your DD a place. But the universities that support their students best - and I agree this includes Bath and Loughborough - will give so much help that for students who show initiative, this hardly matters. I also agree Clinical Psych is so competitive that your DD should start her plans with well selected volunteering activities in Year 1. Best wishes to her

Thank you for that advice.

How do we know which unis are best at student support? Is there a ranking anywhere?

Many many years ago I did a sandwich year. It was fantastic. Showed me so much about how work worked, guided me towards what I wanted to do later, and also built up enough money to make my final year much more comfortable, and have a blow out holiday that summer.
Couple of comments:
*fees still needed to be paid.
*The pay was pants. My uni town and placement town were similarly expensive, but friends who came down from cheaper northern unis really struggled on the money.
*those who didn't find a placement went straight into the final year - the course could be done asca sandwich or straight through course.

The tuition fee is usually charged at a lower rate during the placement year / year abroad, at least for home students.

@Cuphalffullor

Placements are great but year in industry really competitive. I would ask specifically what proportion of your students who signed up for degree with year in industry secured one last year. I know of a course where it was 2/60 last year and so far 3/60 this year. No help whatsoever from uni. Bath and Loughborough are excellent and their students do get them.

I completely agree with the advice to ask specific questions about what proportion of students who start off on the degree with a placement year actually do get a placement. If the university is reluctant to provide a straight answer, that to me would set alarm bells ringing.

I think they're definitely beneficial, but it depends on the uni as to how much assistance the students get.

Dd had no help at all but managed to find a suitable placement, DS had some help with interview practice and someone to give advice, but finding the placement was very much up to him.

It definitely benefitted them after uni though, it meant they had a good cv with plenty on it, plus they'd experienced working full time in their chosen field and it really helped them grow in confidence. It's very important to start looking for placements early (dd didn't realise how early and missed December deadlines for some of the bigger companies)

i think they are great, and better than internships where you dont get paid

Unpaid internships are illegal now.

An excellent question, OP.

The Student Satisfaction component of various university league tables (in particular, IIRC, the Guardian League Table) is a reasonable proxy for this. The best way to get good info is probably for your DD to join the online forum TheStudentRoom. She can post quite detailed questions. The answers are usually pretty thoughtful.

My DS has a placement for next year which is mandatory for his course. (Not psychology.) The Uni did little to help him but, in a way , I think that that is good. Be warned that some placements don’t pay and that he still has to pay something in Uni fees next year which I think is unfair.

@Piggywaspushed I certainly know of one girl who has an unpaid placement, although she does get her accommodation paid for.

Have you checked her fee status - presumably she'll pay overseas rates? Also check whether placements would be restricted because of that - I know students on tier 4 visas (or wherever they are now) can only work 20 hours a week but not sure whether this would include placements.

[quote Mushypeasandchipstogo]@Piggywaspushed I certainly know of one girl who has an unpaid placement, although she does get her accommodation paid for.[/quote]
Placements aren't internships, though. Unpaid placements do occur in parliament (of all places!) and some of the voluntary sector and unis should help with funding this (Bath do) but something called an internship should be paid - this was a reform to even out disadvantages and disparities of wealth in terms of access to internships.

DD2 did a placement which was unpaid (NHS!) but she did it at a hospital near us so she could live at home and course fees were much, much lower. For her subject (STEM) the placement year means you are qualified to work in the field straight after graduation whereas otherwise you would have to spend a year post-grad getting professional accreditation.

Ironically the placement year led to a slight change in direction for DD2 so she is unlikely ever to need what it taught her… but I guess that in itself is valuable knowledge.