Veterinary nursing degree - worth doing?

[Naem]

Hi DD (doing her GCSEs this year) has started talking about doing a veterinary nursing degree (in the UK where we live). I didn't know these existed until now (and still don't seem to exist in Australia, where I am from - and where she sometimes threatens to move, as they have more exciting animals).
I am not sure if this is because she doesn't want the stress of trying to get into veterinary school (where I believe you need top A levels, and by and large chemistry, and she doesn't want to do chemistry for A levels). For veterinary nursing it seems you only need Biology, and the A levels requirements seem to be much lower (eg BCC).
I am trying to get my head around this though. It sounds like it does lead to a definite career with animals, which maybe makes sense. But in some ways she is quite academic (I reckon she could handle chemistry, just she dislikes the chemistry teacher at her school, and that has contaminated her view of the subject, so she is refusing to contemplate it for A levels). I can't quite work out if she is underselling herself.
Does anybody have information on veterinary nursing as a career? Does it allow for further academic study if that was an interest (eg could she do a masters in zoology with a veterinary nursing degree, or is the course too practical)?
And just generally thoughts?

I have a friend who is a vet nurse. Studied it at Uni, mix of practical and theory. It's a genuine career and she was easily employed after qualifying. There is CPD training for more skills. She has always had to work some shifts so worth considering if she's OK with that.

I didn't realise this was a degree either. Got a friend who wanted to be a vet but realised she wouldn't make the grades so it's looking at this. Many years ago my friend became a vet nurse but just by training on the job.

Vet nursing is more an on-the-job, vocational course, often carried out and paid for whilst working at a vets. It’s not something you study and then get a graduate position. Getting a Saturday job somewhere is her best bet right now. A boarding kennels or rescue centre. Then doing an animal care course at college post 16, then looking for full time work as an assistant in a clinic that supports the ongoing training.

DD is looking into a vet nurse degree apprenticeship. She is spending a few weeks over the summer with a vet friend to see how she gets on before applying.
Although she has very good GCSE results and is predicted excellent A levels they aren’t science though so she may have to do a conversion course.

Qualified vet nurses are in high demand.
The job is interesting and you can become head nurse / practice manager / pharma sales rep etc. if you want to branch out after a while.

It is really not an easy job; lots of "grunt work", dealing with angry clients, cleaning etc.

It is not especially well paid considering the study needed and difficulty of the job.

Many vet nurses leave the profession once they have kids. If you ever notice, most vet nurses you'll see are in their 20s or 30s.

@PotatoFamily

Vet nursing is more an on-the-job, vocational course, often carried out and paid for whilst working at a vets. It’s not something you study and then get a graduate position. Getting a Saturday job somewhere is her best bet right now. A boarding kennels or rescue centre. Then doing an animal care course at college post 16, then looking for full time work as an assistant in a clinic that supports the ongoing training.

That is what I thought.

But look at, for example:
www.rvc.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/bsc-veterinary-nursing
(RVC has one of the highest regarded vet med courses)

www.bristol.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/2023/vet-nursing-biovet-science/
Bristol is not usually regarded as one of your mickey mouse universities, nor is Liverpool I thought:
www.whatuni.com/degree-courses/csearch?subject=veterinary-nursing&university=university-of-liverpool

Ok some of the other 13 universities who offer it as a Bsc are perhaps less prestigious, such as Nottingham Trent and Middlesex.

So just trying to understand what the value is in these degrees. Is there a point, or should she just be trying to get jobs at the vets. Note, none of the vets will take anyone under 16 these days, "insurance" apparently. She has tried. And she is planning on taking A levels next year (Biology, Maths and probably Geography). That seems to me to be keeping her options open much more than an animal care course. We will see how the GCSEs go, but she is not looking at bare passes at the moment.

Mock results from December - 988776665. She already has an 8 in photography that she did last year.

Sorry 9887776665.

While I do know vets won’t take under 16s in general there are plenty of places that will take Dc 14 or above for voluntary work such as Rescues etc. DD volunteers at a community farm, Rescue and has a small pet sitting Business
We are lucky in that we have friends who are vets so DD can spend time with them but they say that they prefer to employ people who spend the majority of their time in a Practice with College as well rather than someone who has a traditional degree. Apparently a lot of the degree only nurses tend to flee after their first euthanasia

@Hoppinggreen

While I do know vets won’t take under 16s in general there are plenty of places that will take Dc 14 or above for voluntary work such as Rescues etc. DD volunteers at a community farm, Rescue and has a small pet sitting Business We are lucky in that we have friends who are vets so DD can spend time with them but they say that they prefer to employ people who spend the majority of their time in a Practice with College as well rather than someone who has a traditional degree. Apparently a lot of the degree only nurses tend to flee after their first euthanasia

Really interested to know where would take under 16s in NW London. DD did try, including rescues and a couple of community farms and was told only over 16 (didn't help that most of her 14-16 period was during the pandemic though). She has pet sat for friends, but not for money. She is 16 in July though, so had given up and was waiting until after that.

Follow on question - where do they go after fleeing after their first euthanasia (and why are they any different to Vets, who also cannot be Vets without quite an intensive degree course. Do they also flee after their first euthanasia)? I can understand that the field doesn't really merit a degree course, that is for the vets, and the helpers at the practice, who do a lot more of the day to day care learn better on the job, but not sure why a degree nurse should be more inclined to flee than a vet.
Bit worrying if they all stop working once they have kids, rather than it being a job you can flex and work part time in. My sense is that most vets, like most doctors I know (I know far more doctors than vets) keep working with kids, maybe drop back or part time, but they don't give up altogether.

You can absolutely do an RVN degree. Usually 3 years for a foundation degree and 4 for a full BSc.
I used to work at a vets, we had a mix of vocational trained & degree trained nurses, plus students on the degree course for placements (like human nursing, you still have to do lots of working placements and a portfolio of skills to qualify).

RVN apprenticeships are very competitive and often involve a year or so as a kennel maid / ANA certificate first before a practice will invest in RVN training. The degree offers a different route, but both lead to RVN status.

Many of the nurses I knew have done additional certifications - I know a couple who have done Exotics courses and now specialise in the care of these animals, for example, or who have worked in teaching or referral hospitals and specialised in fields like oncology or neurology nursing. I know at least two who have gone on to study conservation or similar courses, & volunteered abroad in wildlife reserves etc.

Others who have gone into practice management, a few who have moved into pet insurance (either for an insurance company or as the insurance administrator in a larger veterinary practice). Others have gone into veterinary pharmaceutical rep roles, recruitment or set up their own pet sitting businesses.

Veterinary nursing isn't well paid - although it is improving a bit - and the hours are often unsocial and not family friendly though. The BVNA is a good place to start for info, as are the RVC / other vet uni outreach events.

Oh, & we never had a student flee after their first euthanasia in the three years I worked there.
I think they were probably a bit less confident than vocational students I worked with at another practice, at least in their first year, but that was because the vocational students generally had a year or two of in-practice experience before the employer would fund their training.

It’s not something you study and then get a graduate position.

If this was the 1990s it would be spot on.

However it is now 2022 and the standard route is via a degree (usually the traditional 3 year degree, less often the degree apprenticeship route).

Like human and dental nursing, vet nursing far less paid compared to human, dental and vet med.

Worthwhile though, leads directly to relevant employment. But as others have said employment isn't just about getting the grad job of your dreams. Lifestyle, particularly as one gets older, is a factor.

It’s become a skilled and academic career.
It’s no longer just cleaning kennels and feeding pets! In fact nurses are so in demand they rarely get to do those things now and that’s left to care assistants or kennel staff.

Nurses monitor anaesthesia, assist in complex surgery, perform simple surgery, do stitches, take and run blood tests and other laboratory samples, run clinics, perform physio and rehab, take X-rays, administer medications and place cannulas. There is lots of anatomical knowledge as well as maths needed for working out things like fluid rates. Endless practical skills from bandaging to handling frightened pets. Client care skills and dealing with upset people. It’s a tough and underpaid job but very rewarding.

Can’t help with London, sorry

With regards euthanasia, most work experience students and student nurses I work with haven't had an issue whatsoever. Most show interest and want to be involved.

Some may shed a few tears, especially if they've been working closely with the pet, but this is entirely normal.

Oftentimes, it's a relief when owners agree to euthanise a pet who has been suffering and has no quality of life.

For me, it's not the hardest part of the job (at all).

This is really interesting. My dd is 12 and considering veterinary nursing as a career. She watched one of our rabbits be euthanised recently which did shock her a bit although it was done as kindly as these things can be. It has made her question it a bit more as I don’t think she considered that aspect, however she is only 12!
Personally, from my limited experience, it sounds like a great career choice. I am a nurse (people) so can only compare to that but despite being underpaid, especially for a graduate position, I think it would be a good choice with options to diversify, maybe travel etc.
As said already, some practical experience would be useful, and would help her get onto a course in the future.

My friend set up the Vet nursing course at Nottingham and has since gone to work for the BVNA. She would really recommend the vet nursing course and also being a vet nurse in general.

Really interested to know where would take under 16s in NW London

Wellgate Community Farm is on the outskirts of North East London (short bus ride from Newbury Park on the Central Line) & take under 16s as part of their "Young Farmers" programme. I volunteered for a bit there (as an adult) & they've had some kids go on to be vets & vet nurses from their previous cohorts.

wellgatefarm.org/activities/young-farmers/

I think it would be a really smart move for your dd. More and more people are getting pets and are increasingly willing to pay for expensive treatments. It's one of the growth areas. I know someone who trained as a physiotherapist and now works with animals (mostly horses, but increasingly other animals). Her business is booming.

My DD has just received her university offers for vet nursing and will be sitting a level exams shortly.
As a family who have not been to university it's certainly been a learning curve! We looked into the apprenticeship route and found that the places are not that widely available and have a great deal of competition - college advised the uni route over this.
The biggest issue (except if she doesn't get the grades of course) was gaining the work experience required, we approached every vet in the area and rescue centre and the answer was no, due to covid (she was 17 and now 18) but, college were great and have helped secure a placement which she is now doing to get the required work experience, and DD has conditional offers from her 3 universities, and stands a good chance of getting into her first choice from her predicted results.
She is looking to specialise in equestrian nursing, having grown up around horses, and there's a big horse treatment centre near us. There's lots of options for progression into specialities like equestrian or exotic pets, practice management once qualified/working and the option of studying further from what we researched.

The pay is appalling when you consider the studying involved (20 -25l) and regular weekend working is required- make sure she has researched this well before deciding. Poor pay in a demanding, stressful role is so demoralising.

For the amount of training, skill and responsibilities they have, vet nurses are very poorly paid. Not much more than minimum wage. As said earlier in the thread, most vet nurses are young because it is difficult to progress and although the salary seems ok in your early 20s, a lot of nurses leave the profession as they start families etc. It is not a career that would support more than one child’s nursery fees for example. This is sad and will hopefully change in the future.
Is is definitely an interesting and rewarding career, but not one I’d encourage my daughter into.

I haven't read all the comments, but I did the ANA/NVQ route into veterinary nursing- the ANA isn't around anymore! It was good because I was in practice learning and then I'd go to college once a week.
The degree nurses weren't as good as me initially because they'd only be in practice for a month or so here and there, however if an employer had me with 15 years experience and and an NVQ and another nurse with the same experience, but a degree - they'd go with the nurse who had the degree! Although probably not anymore as nurses are high in demand.

If I could go back in time, I personally wouldn't have chosen to be a Veterinary Nurse.
The job is stressful, the hours are long, working bank holidays and weekends. Some Vets (especially the old school male ones!) aren't very nice either, and stuck in their ways.
The pay doesn't reflect the role. There is A LOT of cleaning; including the toilet! (Vets don't have to do that one - go figure)

I really, really loved the animals though. I loved making a difference, my favourite part was ward nursing. The problem that I found was that if you wanted more pay you had to move further away from Vet Nursing! Ending up doing less of what you love, what you trained for in the first place; so Head Nurse (lots of paperwork, training others) Practice Manager , and other jobs previous posters are stating.

I didn't want that, I wanted to nurse.

There are some ways around that like going to work in a large veterinary hospital like RVC, or sometimes even being a locum - more money for less stress of the daily running of the practice.

Anyway, I DID quit nursing once I had kids. You rarely see nurses >late 30's , 40's in the role tbh.
I mainly did it because I was working in a 2 nurse 1 vet practice, if a dog came in and was hit by a car I can't just say "sorry, I've got to go get the kids from nursery bye"

There are definitely exceptions out there, but I will be telling my kids not do to it!

Animals = great.
Everything else = nah.