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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Has anyone here paid uni fees upfront, or considering doing so?

116 replies

dyllemma · 22/03/2022 22:24

I know and understand all the Martin Lewis arguments for not paying upfront. For the majority of people those arguments will absolutely hold true, but I'm thinking that for a sizeable minority, paying upfront might be the right thing to do if:

  1. they have the money to do so (obviously);
  2. they think its fairly likely that their DC will be a consistently high earner after graduating (e.g. perhaps they're heading into a high earning profession, live in the south-east where wages are higher, and are reasonably likely to be the main breadwinner for whatever family they might have in the future, rather than go part-time or take a career break - none of which can be predicted with 100% certainty, but individual families can make a judgement call as to the likelihood for their own DCs).
  3. they aren't at all confident that the alternative option of investing the money will grow the pot faster than RPI + 3%, especially when RPI is on an upwards trajectory due to geopolitical events.

I'm interested to hear from people who have decided to pay the fees, or are thinking of doing so (if so, what is your rationale?).

My DC will start Uni in Oct 22, so I'm considering the options. I think the decision might have been easier a year ago, but with inflation going the way it is, I'm less sure.

OP posts:
HardbackWriter · 25/03/2022 19:06

@dyllemma

What if the young adult decided to go into charity work or to join an alternative community which didn’t engage in economic activity

This is where the risk assessment comes in. Martin Lewis suggests you need to be 100% certain these things won't happen. But many parents know their DC well enough to make a more nuanced judgement.

In my experience, in my mid-30s, it really is very hard to predict. My PILs assumed that DH would be a high earner and he was - until he quit the city aged 26 and became a teacher, and he's now a teacher who works part-time for childcare reasons. No one, including him, saw that coming when he was 18, or even when he was 24.

I went for dinner with 10 friends from Cambridge recently and, perhaps as you'd expect, there were some very high earners among them, but also quite a few less so (including me) and again I'm not sure if you could have predicted in every case which they'd be even a few years post-graduation.

WombatChocolate · 25/03/2022 19:34

I think it is very hard to tell.
And it sounds like some parents really wouldn’t be happy for their children to make their own choices about what they do….that they actually want some kind of financial control or I out into their choices well into adulthood. I get the sense that some choices, just couldn’t be contemplated by some young adults because if family attitude.

My example of joining an alternative community that didn’t engage in economic activity was tongue-in-cheek. I said it was an extreme example.

But lots will be like the examples HardBackWriter gives - looking like they will definitely be goi g to high paying careers….and then not, or starting them and switching quite dramatically. There are medics who never practice, those who get highly sought after careers in the city and leave within a couple of years. I’ve known qualified actuaries leave to become Vicars and those on impressive training contracts with law firms leave to do environmental charity work. And of course, lots of women who are highly qualified have children and never work again.

For me, there are some choices my DC might make that I would be rather concerned about, but I hope that I will allow them to choose their own paths and not take the view that only the things I think are ‘worthy’ are acceptable.

In terms of the Uni fees though, it does beg the question whether some people later regret their choice to fully fund Uni fees. I guess if the fees are paid and there’s still plenty to fund a house deposit or further training and the fees were a drop in the ocean, then it doesn’t matter. But if the DC had their fees paid and then couldn’t have any further financial help if any magnitude, it might feel it wasn’t the best use of the money….given they might have never paid much off a student loan at all.

I guess it’s true that everyone does a ‘risk assessment’ and considers what a DC is likely to do. If they do medicine, then perhaps you have a clearer idea. Most parents of 18 year olds who are deciding if to apply to student loans though, don’t know what their kid will do. I agree with anniegun, that taking the loan at 18 and re-assessing at 21 and then again at 23 and perhaps 25 and whenever else seems useful is a better ‘risk assessment’. At those later points, your assessment of risk can be far more accurate and based on less unknown variables.

Yes, at any point a DC in their 30s or 40s can suddenly change course dramatically and you might have a feeling that you misjudged what to do with £60k, but the further down the line, the more information you have.

I agree that at 18, as economic agents, we just do t have enough information to make fully rational decisions, so almost have to ‘hedge our bets’ by taking the loan. Then in the years after graduation we can decide if to stick with it, or to pay it off. This will involve some interest payments, but those of just a few years feel worth it, to have had the possibility of keeping the cash for other things like a house deposit. That’s what we will be doing. And that’s a shift of position for me. I will have paid school fees for more than 15 years and in some ways, paying for Uni would have been just more of the same. In lots of ways it makes sense to me for the reasons given by others, which include ‘finishing off the job of educating my child’ and wanting them to start debt free like I did. But if I do that, I won’t have the £60k to give them for a house and I think that’s more valuable in most cases.

I finished student life debt free and would like the same for my DC. However, when I finished debt free, it was also possible for a young single person to buy a property in Greater London. That isn’t so possible now, so to me, prioritising property access over being debt free makes sense. And as I said before, if then some extra money turns up (inheritance or we sold and downsized) then I’d pay off the student debt in all liklihood. But I’d do that 2nd and not 1st.

dyllemma · 25/03/2022 20:00

And it sounds like some parents really wouldn’t be happy for their children to make their own choices about what they do

I think that's unfair and not at all what anyone is suggesting. It's about knowing your child, and making a judgement call. If it turned out to be wrong in our case, I wouldn't look back with regret or make DC feel bad aboutbut. Life's too short for regrets. I could very easily be kicking myself right now for overpaying our mortgage for years rather than putting the money into the stock market where (with hindsight) it would have grown much faster, but I don't regret the peace of mind I had in making that choice at the time. If there was an obvious best path then we'd all take it, but there is no right or wrong answer.

OP posts:
BasiliskStare · 25/03/2022 21:13

I agree as with many things - no right or wrong answers - otherwise everyone ( finances permitting) would do it - it is a balance

The one thing I would say is that if you trust your DC to be sensible about money then paying for some things doesn't turn them into an entitled wastrel. ( i.e. learning about money)

The deposit / fees argument is more nuanced . I have looked down the back of sofa and can't afford a flat and the fees but I think we have reached a middle ground.

Xenia · 25/03/2022 21:28

There is another point on this - I paid my children's fees but I don't expect or require them to do any sort of work or indeed work at all - that is their choice. my older son works delivery food full time and before that was a postman for 3 years. I have no problem with that at all and my other point is this - I have saved the tax payer a lot of money given he would never have paid a loan back. Isn't that a moral good? It is not all about how can I get the most money for me and for my children in life surely?

WombatChocolate · 25/03/2022 21:32

I remembered your son was a postman Xenia.

It’s great that you’re successful and your other kids are too, and that you’re happy with his choices. And of course he might be happier than all of the others. No doubt your help and support of him, both financially but everything else too have made a big difference to him.

dyllemma · 25/03/2022 22:58

I've also consulted a financial adviser and, surprise surprise, her advice was to give the whole inherited lump sum to her so she could invest it in the stock market (with x% fee for her advice, y% platform fee and z% discretionary fund manager fee) where it might (or might not) follow the trends of the past and grow significantly. But it just doesn't feel right, and I know for sure that it isn't what my mum would have wanted me to do with all of the money I inherited from the sale of her house.

OP posts:
Tryingtohelp23 · 25/03/2022 23:31

My exDH and I had always wanted to give our 2 DDs the same debt free start to their working lives that we’d benefited from. DD1 did medicine, so likely earning profile also made it look sensible financially.
DD2 did nursing and was the last year that didn’t have to pay fees. We put the equivalent to what her sister had had into an ISA in her name.
They’re both now working and I think really appreciate they don’t have this debt hanging over them. I think it’s good that there’s no disincentive to applying for higher paid jobs too.
A less honourable motive was ensure some of the money I’d had to give exDH in the divorce ended up back with the DDs (which is what he said he wanted it for).
No regrets here, whatever happens in the future.

Xenia · 26/03/2022 08:55

Wombat, thanks. I suppose we had expected the delivery driver son might eventually move into something "better" but 10 years on from graduating now I think it is unlikely. He lives a happy life in a house he owns and seems content. He is back here today (as we have a family baptism tomorrow) so I will catch up on his news then.

dyllemma, I agree. It would be a bit risky. I have helped my children buy a first property and that money was for a property, not to risk on the stock market even if stock market returns might be higher. In fact one of my sons has been doing a huge amount of work with low sums with day trading, long term trading etc which he enjoys (it is all very easy and interesting these days with mobile apps etc) but that is with his money, not the house money.

i was very clear with my children - I pay for education and towards a first house and then they are on their own for life, no exceptions. If they choose to sell the house and spend the money I would not be pleased but that is then up to them.

WombatChocolate · 26/03/2022 09:09

Dylemma, is it that your issue is that you have the money sitting there and worry about it being eroded by inflation, so feel it needs spending to prevent that - and the Uni fees are a big bill which will need meeting, so it feels a good place to spend the money?

I think it is the case that everyone with a big sum of money worries about that at the moment. The fear of it losing value vs the worries of investments which obviously can’t be guaranteed is a worry. I can see you don’t want the inheritance to be ‘wasted’ or drop in value during the degree and that when it’s money from someone else, the burden to use it wisely feels even stronger.

Would a possibility be to buy property now? That way, the ‘investment’ will have been done and the risks of inflation eroding cash gone? Your children might not want to settle and buy the property they will live in for a number of years, but by then, the generic and safe investment property you buy will have increased in value, as well as yielding some rental income. At the point the children are ready to settle, it could be sold. The proceeds could be used then to buy somewhere to live….or even to pay off Uni fees if that seemed best.

I just wonder if you’re so interested in paying the Uni fees, not necessarily because you think it’s the best use of the money, but because the money is there now and you feel it needs using now, as waiting is risky.

Apologies if I’m barking up the wrong tree with this one.

I guess for lots of people, their pot of money for the kids is gradually accumulating on a monthly basis. It only reaches its peak after Uni is over. That makes the feelings about what to do with it quite different. If the whole lot is there before they finish school, but also might be needed in less than 5 years, investment options are limited, but a need to curate and protect the pot feels important.

dyllemma · 26/03/2022 09:48

Wombat a property investment is definitely an option on the table, but isn't the obvious choice it might have been a few years ago, due to the increasing tax and regulatory burden. I also don't think I have the bandwidth to manage it - I'm max-ed out as it is. We'll keep it on the table for now though, at least until DS decides which uni he wants to go to over the next couple of weeks. The total pot would only buy a small flat in London (one of his options), but something bigger in a couple of the other uni areas he's deliberating over. In the meantime, we're already heavily invested in property through our own home, which we will cheerfully downsize when the DC's move on.

Worth adding that I'm not currently sharing these deliberations with DC - he's free to make whatever uni choice suits him.

OP posts:
EveryCloudIsGrey · 26/03/2022 20:36

@Xenia

There is another point on this - I paid my children's fees but I don't expect or require them to do any sort of work or indeed work at all - that is their choice. my older son works delivery food full time and before that was a postman for 3 years. I have no problem with that at all and my other point is this - I have saved the tax payer a lot of money given he would never have paid a loan back. Isn't that a moral good? It is not all about how can I get the most money for me and for my children in life surely?
I think this too. We've helped our kids a lot but we don't require them to do anything in return. We've always made it clear that our help (Uni, cars houses) comes with no strings attached. Luckily our kids are all sensible and hardworking but if one of them decided to drop out of things and become a beach bum then that would be their choice. I wouldn't nessecerily like it but I genuinely believe that they should make their own choices. I've done the best I can parenting the kids when they were young but now they are adults I don't won't to be making decisions for them. Id have no issues at all if one of my kids decided they wanted to be a postman or whatever. I guess id be disappointed if they chose to live off benefits if there were no reason for them to but luckily I'm not in that position.
BasiliskStare · 27/03/2022 16:14

I do think that Xenia has a point in that she has paid for her DS and therefore a loan he may never pay back does not go into the general purse to be paid back ( i.e. if the student does not ever earn enough to pay the loan back ) Not all can afford to do this I understand that.

Xenia · 27/03/2022 19:48

And I am certainly not really doing it with fervent socialist principles to help others less fortunate even if it has that result....

Delphigirl · 28/03/2022 14:52

I have paid all fees and accom for 2 kids and will do the same for the next 2. I am lucky enough to be able to afford it. It is like continuing to pay school fees for another 3 years, except considerably cheaper. My reasons are 1. I don't and never have trusted the govt not to retrospectively change the terms to their detriment. I've been right about that. 2. There isn't the slightest possibility absent life-changing injury or death that they will earn less than £27k at any point after the first few years. If they are significantly injured or die I will have other things to worry about than wasted uni fees. 3. Life is difficult enough for this generation without chucking an additional 9% income tax burden on them for the rest of their lives. I would have found that significantly limiting in my 20s and I see no reason to do it when I can afford not to do it. 4. All those who say put the money in pensions, well I have an excellent final salary pension so that is pointless. Put it in a deposit for a house - why is it better to give them a small-ish lump sum (in the context of a mortgage) but sign them up for 9% additional income tax for life? Never quite understood that one. Anyway I can give them money for deposits when the last one graduates and we sell the big family house and downsize.

That's always been my thinking anyway. Different people will have different circs and make different choices.

BasiliskStare · 28/03/2022 15:36

I can see ( if one can afford it ) the difference between money for a deposit on a flat & paying university fees is a question. So a DC could put money into a pension instead of paying the loan off ( final salary pensions are increasingly rare I think ) or save that money towards a deposit.

It's a nice problem to have in many ways.

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