Is veterinary medicine a good idea?

[GiantGeorge]

Inspired by the dentistry and medicine threads. Is it all private high street cats and dogs with a focus on cross- and up selling or an enriching and rewarding job? Insanely competitive, what's aVet's job life like in the UK? Would you recommend?

I think clients are unreasonable to lots of businesses. Not just vets. The big problem vets have is that poor people become pet owners. Then they want charity to keep the pet alive. It will never change as pets are not the preserve of the rich! It means vets have to have a policy on non payers. Just like any other consultancy business really.

Funnily enough, euthanasias are low down on the list of reasons I dislike my career choice. Being able to kindly and gently end an animals suffering is a privilege

Well and thank goodness for those like you. My local vet was supremely sensitive and kind when I had to take my very old and much loved family dog to her a couple of weeks ago. You say a privilege but the feeling is reciprocated I'm sure by owners whose pets are looked after by vets such as you or her.

TizerorFizz a couple in the village I lived in until last summer refused to pay the bill for their pet's euthanasia and cremation just because they could. Then railed against the (very good) local vet for not releasing the ashes.

And a near neighbour in my new home village takes her animals on an almost daily basis to the vet for perceived ailments (she having being told by the local doctor to stop bothering the practice herself for imaginary problems), including on Christmas Day (a cat with a mild temperature).

On call most weekends, unsociable working hours, not being allowed to take leave because need someone to be on call, highly pressurised, highly demanding, guilted not to take sick leave, clients who cannot or won’t pay, no overtime pay but overtime always expected, never being able to make plans, never able to relax, difficult customers, majority don’t have much time off, majority are on anti depressants, can easily get badly injured, wet, cold , dangerous and smelly, highly stressful, unreasonable stressed out bosses with endless paperwork and admin and reception work and phone calls and chasing late payments or non payers.

It’s also very competitive to get in. A girl I know has all 8/9s at GCSE, predicted all A* at A Level, 400 hours of work experience. She was rejected outright by three institutions without an interview and is on the waiting list for the fourth.

Oh this is sooo depressing☹️…. We have a good few years to go before dd has to make this decision but I’d been encouraging her in the dream (& she’s great at science & maths so it’s not a total whim!)….

@crazycrofter selection for interview comes down to the extra forms each Uni requires. Perfect grades don't matter. Being able to complete SJT, reflective questions and knowledge of what being a vet means (including all the scary stuff mentioned here), count more.

@Blinkingbatshit DD is having a fantastic time at Uni. And all the vets she's met love their jobs. Lots of tough stuff but no one has tried to talk her out of it yet.

A friend of mine was a vet and had to leave. She couldn't take the pressure of operations. She was only allowed a certain amount of time to do one before having to be onto the next. But she was so careful with the animals to make sure everything was perfect, that she was too slow and was constantly under pressure to get faster. In the end she couldn't take the pressure and quit.

I remember working with vets 40 yrs ago and it was more of a family feel. But it's a big business now and more and more privately owned practices are being bought out by large companies that are pushing to increase the bottom line. And tbf our expectations that our animals can always be saved is increasing as well and that adds pressure too.

@Blinkingbatshit It is depressing indeed. My family and school all supported and encouraged my dream, as they should have. But the reality is it's a small community and most people don't actually know vets, and vets are often their own worse enemy at educating the public on the truth of life in the profession, so how are you to know?

For example, you buy a new kitten and take it for it's first vaccines. The vet, nurses and receptionists all coo over your new addition, declare it's healthy and chat through any concerns. But directly before your consult they have just euthanised a lovely old dog they've been treating it's entire life, or had an angry client abuse them down the phone for them not being able to refer them for specialist treatment despite best efforts, or maybe they have a critical case they are worried about in the treatment area and are anxiously awaiting blood results. We put on a smile as part of the service, but so many are truly struggling behind closed doors.

Of course, some vets will truly love their job! I really do think it's the minority unfortunately.

Good things-
So much variety - in one morning, I can be teaching someone how to inject insulin, admiring a new puppy, amputating a leg. There’s no human doctors that get to learn and practice the breadth that we do.
The satisfaction of finding out why the animal is broken and fixing it
Cute fluffy kittens
Colleagues
Owners (the nice ones)
I can work anywhere in the country and be sure of finding a job

Bad things-
Owners (the mean ones)
Emotional rollercoaster of breaking bad news one minute, then doing a first puppy visit, then a euthanasia, then being told I’m a money grabbing bitch who hates animals
Salary
Vet bashing from owners/the media (do paediatricians get the same abuse I wonder….)
Working pattern - lots of my friends are at the mercy of an unpredictable weekend rota and as a result I don’t think I’ve seen my friends from vet school since 2017. We open until 6.30 (later if there’s an emergency) and nursery…does not.

In my DHs business, time is money. If you cannot do the work in the time allowed, the company loses money. It’s the same in any consultancy business. Taking too long means the company is not economically viable. This needs to be explained to vets who need a long time to do a job.

I fail to understand why vets don’t gef used to putting animals down. It has to happen. You cannot be too sentimental.

Most consultancies work on no overtime payments to the professionally qualified. However staffing adequately is important. I think most vets do like being vets. Plenty want to be vets. The starting salaries seem commensurate with other grad jobs. Not higher though.

@TizerorFizz

In my DHs business, time is money. If you cannot do the work in the time allowed, the company loses money. It’s the same in any consultancy business. Taking too long means the company is not economically viable. This needs to be explained to vets who need a long time to do a job.

I fail to understand why vets don’t gef used to putting animals down. It has to happen. You cannot be too sentimental.

Most consultancies work on no overtime payments to the professionally qualified. However staffing adequately is important. I think most vets do like being vets. Plenty want to be vets. The starting salaries seem commensurate with other grad jobs. Not higher though.

@TizerorFizz What is your husbands business?

Civil, Structural, Highway and Environmental consulting engineers. The principle is the same. There is a price you have agreed for a job. If it takes way longer than the quote, will the client pay more? Probably not. So you lose money every time someone takes longer than they should. You factor in that newly qualified people might need longer and more supervision but if they cannot, on many occasions, work at the same pricy tibitybas others, they make a loss. For many companies, this is not a sustainable situation. In DHs case the jobs are large and collaborative but everyone must work efficiently. They must of course design safely.

Work at the same pace as others… I would also add that construction design can be a matter of life and death. We don’t want buildings collapsing do we?

[quote TizerorFizz]@mumsneedwine
The idea that you can “set up on your own if you are brave enough” is almost laughable. Do you have any idea how much you need to invest in equipment, premises, staff etc? How will a low paid vet do this? Only people from wealthy families can even think about this.

Medicine is better paid by far and less risky in many ways.[/quote]
Interested the know the 'many ways'?

I fail to understand why vets don’t gef used to putting animals down. It has to happen. You cannot be too sentimental.

I really disagree with this. If you've known a pet and owner for years, it's not unreasonable to feel sadness when you euthanise that people and support that owner with making the decision. It's a human quality to have empathy.

Other circumstances are bloody hard though. Euthanising a dog that has been thoroughly let down, not trained, not socialised and is being put down because its bitten or got in a fight, for example. Or the one that sticks with me from my years on reception, the client with mental health issues who brought her cat for euthanasia as she didn't want to live and didnt want to leave the cat behind. Her mental health nurse, the vet, me, we all tried to persuade her to sign the cat over instead (i offered to adopt it). She refused, she had capacity to make the decision and the vet ended up carrying out the euthanasia. It was fucking awful.

*euthanise that pet - not people!

This thread is a real eye opener. I know a lot of vets here in Australia who absolutely love their job, seem to have a great work life balance and be well paid. Qualify and emigrate?

@Flatandhappy DDs plan. Sad but she's done her research.

It’s possibly the most competitive degree to get into in the Uk. The saying goes medics are failed vets and dentists are failed medics…..it’s the dentists having the last laugh now.
One of my best friends is a vet. She hates it. She earns about £45k a year for full time (with lots of on calls) 20 years out of vet school……which I don’t think is great pay back for the most competitive degree to get into. Compare that to medicine, where she’d be on £100k+ or dentistry where the sky is the limit. You only earn loads as a vet if you own and run a practice, and most of those are being bought out by corporates who cut pay and conditions. They have a very high suicide rate too.

30+ years qualified and hanging in there for me.
FTE salary is about 50k despite my experience, but there’s no way I could cope with the strain of full time hours.
Basically we’ve created the perfect storm. Practices used to be owned by vets, now anyone can set one up and just employ the vets. Now there are shareholders to pay too and prices have gone up but salaries aren’t great. People have left and it’s put pressure on the remaining vets resulting in poorer mental health and on the cycle goes.
I’m not sure the selection process is quite right. We often seem to select high achieving perfectionists who can struggle to cope with things not working out. Animals aren’t machines so unexpected outcomes are common. Some of the best young vets I’ve met are the ones who got in on an access course. Their grades may not have been the best but they seem to be able to cope better with unexpected events and often have an element of pragmatism which gets them through. Our suicide rate is 4x average but we have the means to do it.
I mostly enjoy my work but I’m saddened by the general public’s attitude often. We are here to help your pet, yet I’ve been shouted and sworn at on several occasions. Please don’t see us as the enemy.
I did not encourage my children to go into the profession, I think they saw enough of the fallout of me coming home and offloading my frustrations.
To anyone considering it now, you must try to get work experience while still at school. Ask lots of questions, not just about cases but work life balance. Speak to vets of all ages and in different types of practice. Ask them to be honest. Find the ones who are still fired up about their work as well as the jaded ones then make a decision.

@humanjoy
“Many ways” referred to being employed by a huge organisation with excellent pension provision. Part time working is very possible and maternity leave and pay is excellent. Sick
leave is generous. Smaller companies that employ vets often cannot match these benefits. I’m not saying medicine is easier but might have more stable and higher remuneration in the long run.

I’ve got 2 vet friends. Both on antidepressants! both separately tell me how people love their pets like family, but don’t make sure there’s money for fees. if a pet has to be pts because of lack of money they turn on the vet and staff almost 100 of the time. It’s not an easy job, long hours and much of the time not appreciated.

The best sick pay I’ve had in a contract was 1 month full pay, 1 month half pay in any 12 month rolling period. The worst was 2 weeks. If you have a mortgage you’ll need to take out some sort of critical illness cover but policies often don’t pay out in the first few months.