Web developer type jobs, is a computer science degree needed?

[QuebecBagnet]

DD’s boyfriend is in his first year of a computer science degree which he’s finding quite boring as he says he can already code, has taught himself lots of stuff before starting it. He’s also in the process of setting up his own business to do web site design/coding.

I think in an ideal world he’d have stayed doing the degree while seeing if he can get this company of his off the ground. I admire his ambition but also aware that a lot of companies might not succeed or be slow to take off.

His parents are getting divorced, his mum has moved in with a new bloke. His dad is selling the house and moving away (he lives at his dad’s at the minute and goes to the local uni). His dad has told him he needs to be totally financially independent in 12 months and won’t have anywhere to live and won’t get any money from his parents. They’re cutting him off. Because of his parent’s earnings he’s only entitled to the minimum student loan.

So he says he’ll leave his degree and get some sort of junior IT job, he’s adamant you don’t need a degree and it’s all about what you can actually do. But when we looked at some jobs on Indeed some said they needed a computer science degree. Others didn’t. So his plan is to get a junior job so he can support himself while hopefully his company takes off. If however his company doesn’t take off and he ends up working for others for ever will a lack of a degree hold him back?

I’m happy that he moves in here and I support him through the last 18 months of his degree and I’ve told him this. He says he doesn’t need a degree but I don’t know if he’s just being polite as he doesn’t want to be an imposition. I’m so angry with his parents that they’re putting him in this position.

We're brining in Junior Software (web) devs and they don't need a degree. When it comes down to it, technical ability is what matters.

I've seen something during the week (could be Moneysavingexpert) that says that parents can declare their child independent of themselves and therefore qualify for the max student loan.

My DD is thinking of doing Computer Science at University one day so it's interesting to know that it might not be the most interesting degree especially if you know a lot of coding already. She is hoping to do a CS A Level.

I think it is an interesting degree, @ouch44, even if you have done a lot of coding, but I think some courses are better than others.

Computer Science degrees cover all sorts of things, there is programming, obviously, and algorithms and data structures, but there are loads of other areas to study, for example machine learning, artificial intelligence, cybersecurity, networking, human computer interaction.

I really enjoyed formal reasoning, medical scientific programming and writing compilers as well as more general coding. I would get your daughter to shop around and maybe have a look at Software Engineering degrees, too.

That's great to know @TheSmallAssassin. She's only 13 but this is what she is aiming for at the moment!

To be frank, if DC has a passion for coding, is ahead of the curve in their learning and knowledge and wants to have a Software Development type role, then picking a Computer Science degree is probably/possibly the wrong choice.
As PP's have said, it is a generic Computing degree, where programming may only be 25% or less.
There are degrees that lean more to Development such as Software Engineering, Web Programming and Games Programming, but they won't be 100% coding!

@ouch44 and OP -

CS can be a fascinating degree and the degree itself can definitely open doors. As we are seeing here, without a degree a talented person can find a niche with smaller employers or in self employment. A good career is definitely possible.

But rightly or wrongly in early career their application will simply be binned by the large employers. The new standard is a 2.1 degree. More importantly, a good CS programme isn’t boring! Each student will prefer some modules to others, but the whole is greater than the sum of the parts and I really do believe the perspective gained can be hugely valuable.

@ouch44, your DD will obviously want to explore various aspects of CS to her heart’s content during her secondary education. That’s fab. But she might want to investigate the recommended A levels for her degree programmes of interest. Often CS programmes do not particularly want the CS A level and indeed prefer others. A few students have told me that the approach to CS at A level can be a bit boring ( which is not to insult anyone who likes it). If your DD were mine I would much rather she followed her interests at this stage and learned the formal CS properly at uni

Thank you @poetryandwine and @stubiff for the advice and sorry for derailing your post OP.

I knew that you didn't need CS for a degree but didnt know that some universities prefer you not to have it. I have started my own thread in secondary education as she is picking options at the moment if you have any more advice I would be very grateful.

You don't need a degree, but employers like mine will have enough applications that they usually use a degree as a filter, especially for entry-level jobs - we have only successfully requested HR that the degree requirement be removed when recruiting for more senior roles where they can show "equivalent experience."

It's not essential, but it will give him more options and make it easier if he has a degree.

Also, formal education was one of the criteria they looked at last time our department had roles at risk.

OP and @ouch44 -

My apologies also for a further brief derailment. I saw the thread in Secondary but, knowing nothing about Art exams, had nothing to say.

The most important A level for CS is Maths. The Student Room has a list about 4 yrs old of CS Degree Programmes That Don’t Require Maths A Level and it isn’t very long.

I have just been looking and more programmes than in the past are including CS as a recommended Science A Level, but just one amongst many. Haven’t found anyone who requires or strongly recommends it and doubt I would. Physics and FM are most often mentioned but there is a great deal of flexibility. And as PPs have said, applicants should consider not just straight CS but also related degrees.

I don't know whether we count as big, 1500+ employees, but none of our developer roles require a degree, we list essential skills that we are looking for, and I honestly don't care whether you got those skills by studying a degree or not.

I'm a dev in a big management consultancy firm. There are about 12 devs in my team and probably a third to a half of them have CS degrees. The rest have degrees in all sorts of other subjects (engineering, classics, philosophy that I can think of) and retrained later, either through bootcamps or self-teaching. The suggestion upthread about having solid evidence on Github is a good one, otherwise it could be hard to get through the filters. As pps have said you don't need a degree to be a software dev, but you may need one to get the job.

Just re-read your post - once he's in a job, I don't think the lack of a degree would hold him back.

I’ll mention Github to him. Not sure if he knows about it or not. Thanks.

I know he’s recently set up his own website for his business but guess that’s maybe not something to use to demonstrate his skills if applying for jobs!

He could certainly get a job as a web developer without a degree. He could certainly do quite well for a while.

While the short term prospects are good, the long term outlook is less so. The problem with web development is that it is becoming increasingly automated. It may not be a high-skill job in years to come.

He's bored and wants to work.
It depends what exactly he wants to do and what he can code in.

If he doesn't have a degree and applies for jobs asking for one, he'll be screened out by most recruiters.

I think he might as well apply for a role with a good company.

I'm a web developer with a geography degree.

A CS is not strictly necessary for a job in web development, but it will make your life much easier having one. The majority of my colleagues have a CS degree. If I had my time again I would do one.

Also programming is bigger than web development - machine learning, firmware, gaming, all that stuff. A solid foundation will give you more options down the line.

The best developers will have part time jobs, summer jobs, internships, placement years etc AND come out with the degree at the end.

The other fact about web development is that sometimes you have to do boring stuff you don't really want to do. I would tell him to suck it up for the next 2 years, get the degree done and try to get lots of work experience at the same time.

Can anyone advise about a computing degree vs computer science as a choice? Seems to be less focus on maths...

@Orangesandlemons77
You may want to start your own thread.
Not many are called Computing, more likely to be Computing and/with X, or Computing (Software Engineering, say), so by definition poss less Maths based.
Depends what your DC is interested in, and which Unis they are aiming at.

DH is a web developer without a CS degree. He does have a degree though. The thing that will really make a difference is experience - could your DD's boyfriend get an internship for a year? That would give him experience, an income and a really good insight into the industry. It would also help him decide whether to continue with his degree.

While DH doesn't have a CS degree, he reckons he'd done 10,000 hours of coding before he finished his degree - he's pretty nerdy. That's who this lad may be up against.

There's a wide range of IT jobs - many are in support, which is very valuable (and much needed) but some way away from web development. If he can, he wants to ask what the IT job actually entails.

Hope he finds a good way forward.

But setting up his own website isn’t very impressive sorry. My 11 year old can do that. It does not demonstrate any web dev skills. She’s using Wordpress. People in marketing roles does our company website.

On the other hand, it sounds like he wants to set up his own business making website for others. He needs the soft skills to market himself and manage clients.

Except for professions that dictates you needing a degree to register to practice, nothing requires a degree. It’s just CV filtering will often require you to have one to get short listed.

I mean if he finds it boring, then there isn’t any point continuing with a degree at all. It is an education and I think most of us never directly use what is taught in our degrees.

I do know what what web dev can cover React, Vue or whatever is the latest JavaScript framework. But I question you need coding to set up a business to make websites for SME. Why would you need that much customisation to create a generic website for a school or a dentist? A decent CRM will already do the job and faster.

Web development is increasingly becoming automated and lower end of the skills scale. Computer science degree should give him opportunities to explore different areas of IT. However there are lots of apprenticeships available some being highly competitive but with a lot of growth potential such as cyber security.

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