Middle Eastern Studies

[Tenpastseven]

So, DS who has an unconditional offer to study MFL at Bristol next year, and has been on a gap year abroad this year having a wonderful and life changing time, has decided he might rather look in to studying for a Liberal Arts degree abroad, majoring in Middle Eastern Studies and Philosophy.

I'm anxious (OBV!) about a gazillion different aspects of this.

One particular anxiety that I'm hoping that someone here might be able to help with is about the relative merits of reading Middle Eastern studies abroad as compared to a UK University. Is anyone here 'in the know' about these things and could tell me something about the International standing/rankings in this field? I can DM you with the particular country he's in/ Uni he's looking at but don't really want to disclose that widely...

World rankings are not difficult to find. What work might he want afterwards? That would sway my thoughts. Would Bristol out rank his new idea? Whose paying for the uni abroad? Most MFL students get this bit out of their system during the year abroad during their MFL degree.

Issues abroad are usually cost, funding, housing (many countries don't have halls), experience (many students live at home and go to local unis in some countries).

I wouldn't worry too much about the subject matter which is basically a humanities/potentially languages mix.

Here are the commonly used world rankings if you wish to check details by uni generally and also by subject

www.qs.com/faq-items/qs-world-university-rankings-2022/

Typo: that should be “who is paying for this?”

It’s quite a big issue though. What about a visa for study?

It is difficult to make global rankings for MES because in different countries courses will have different designations and be incorporated into different groupings depending on whether they focus on languages and linguistics, literature, art and archeology, history, religion, law, social and political sciences, on countries grouped in different ways (Middle East, Islamic World, Arab World, 'the Orient', etc.) and so on. That is before you even consider how you would rank courses that are the study of these topics in the actual country in question. Even just for the UK, institutions can decide whether they want to designate their course as an area studies course, or a subject by area course which affects which ranking they fall into.

In terms of relative merits, it depends whether you are comparing say UK vs US, or UK vs France, or UK vs Jordan. There would be different pros and cons depending on where you are comparing.

Generally, I would look for places that have actual centres or institutes, not just one degree course, as they will have better resources and more of a community. This is especially important if you want to learn Arabic or a similar language, which I would think is a good idea. Off the top of my head:

• For the US, I would look at the Title VI National Resource Centers for the Middle East. These are 15 or so universities that are selected to receive special government funding as leaders in the field. They are mostly the Ivy League and other very top colleges, but there are some others.

• In Europe, as in the US, a lot of the time you will be looking at the most highly ranked universities in a particular country, as NME/MES courses tend to be quite niche, not particularly popular and often somewhat resource intensive. This probably makes things a bit easier when considering relative merits, as many of them will be amongst the best universities in their country anyway. Generally, it's a bit like the UK with centres in the top universities plus a few specialist institutions.

Germany: Heidelberg, Marburg, Bamburg, GIGA. France: INALCO is a specialist, otherwise it's EHESS and other top universities. Belgium: Leuven and Ghent. Netherlands: Best is probably Leiden. Others: Uppsala, Lund, Copenhagen, Bergen, Oslo. I imagine there must be places in Spain.

• In the Middle East it is difficult to say because part of the benefit will just be from learning about that country while in the country itself. I would probably go for general name recognition / general ranking, rather than a specialisation, for the sake of transferability. Israel is a tricky one in terms of course content.

Thanks for comments. The fees are about 20% more than UK fees (but no loan) which we are fortunately in a position to be able to offer him (as a loan on same terms for parity with siblings who have taken student loans on) and accommodation costs in halls are comparable with Bristol. But it’s a VERY expensive city. There are a lot of International students at the Uni and they teach in English. Visa shouldn’t be an issue. He is currently talking about being a diplomat or working in IR afterwards. But y’know, he’s 18 so who knows.

I guess I’m just wanting to see whether I can help him assess whether his choice may close off any options to him further down the line. The Uni is outranked by Bristol by about 100 places but that doesn’t necessarily mean their Liberal Arts Programme isn’t well thought of, does it?

I’m interested and reassured by your comment @SeasonFinale, that you don’t think the subject is something to angst about.

Just read your post @Phphion! Thank you so much. That’s so helpful.

Diplomat equals him getting into the Foreign Office. Is there any evidence they like this university and degree? It seems niche to me. So many do IR degrees and get nowhere near the FO. I would check very carefully that the status of this degree is seen as suitable for his career options.

Yes that’s what I’m trying to figure out @TizerorFizz but not a straightforward task.

Some of DD’s friends are reading Arabic at Edinburgh & spending this year in Cairo. I think they’re supposed to be somewhere else but decided to live in Egypt as they could get there (COVID).

Do you think he could just randomly email some UK based departments for their advice/insight? Might get lucky?

I am no expert. I speak the language of a Muslim country, but an Asian one. Friends who went abroad to further cultural type studies tended to go to SOAS, Oxford, U Michigan Ann Arbour, or Cairo, but this would have been post grad.

I came on really to say that I understand, from someone who is applying this year, that Bristol has changed (reduced) its MFL/Arabic course. If that is what your son is applying for, he should check.

As for whether the FCDO likes a particular university or degree, I will defer to Tizer's greater knowledge. However my understanding is that:
1.The recruitment is via the Civil Service Fast Stream. the priority will be policy making type skills, ie the ability to reason, master a subject quickly etc. I would assume that they make every effort to ensure that this recruitment is institution blind.

1. Entry is desperately competitive. The FCOD will have an idea of skills or attributes they might be short of, so to some extent it is luck whether your profile fits their requirements. For example they may well be looking to expand their capacity for bilateral trade negotiations. To a large extent Languages are less important. Diplomats expect to pick up several during the course of their career. However and obviously some languages, Arabic and Chinese spring to mind, won't do any harm, perhaps as much as a way of demonstrating an interest in a country/culture and a resilience of the sort that unfortunately is needed in some of the tougher Arabic speaking posts.
2. That said the sort of skills the FCOD is probably looking for will be mirrored by a host of other organisations, beyond the obvious journalism , charity or UN. A friend's son, who had a slightly problematic educational career which contrasted with the Oxbridge and beyond success of his three siblings, has now carved himself out an impressive career working for a big accountancy firm almost entirely in what might be described as "hardship posts". Nepal, one of the more difficult countries in Africa etc. Having the skills for the job counts, but also the ability to keep the generator running and to work effectively in a different culture. Language then becomes a nice to have, though demonstrates a strong interest in other cultures and the experience of living abroad.

Sorry, that "D" rolled around a little. FCDO.

@Tenpastseven
I don’t have any great knowledge so bemused at the comment above.

A sobering thought though. In 2021 the Diplomatic service had 28 fast track vacancies. It took on 0.2% of applicants. 15,872 registered as being interested. It has the lowest success rate of any area of recruitment in fast track. There are, of course, other jobs. MFL might be better prep for those.

@Tenpastseven
These are the 2021 recruitment stats for Fast Track civil service. You will have to piece them together! It shows success rates and also university sector.

I have a DC who did her bachelor's in international politics at a non-British European university with a major focus on MENA studies. I can DM you about it if you want about the details. We're in a slightly different position though because we don't live in the UK anyway, so going into the British diplomatic service wasn't really an issue.

The one thing I would point out is that the few UK students on this course were at something of a disadvantage by comparison with many of the others, because the UK system specialises so early on. DD's programme had one mandatory class on statistics, another on economics involving maths. DD and most of her friends had done maths up to 18 because it was mandatory, and simply having a GCSE wouldn't be sufficient as a starting point. Another thing is the languages: DD is bilingual and speaks another language fluently, plus a basic working knowledge of two more. This was entirely typical for the students on her programme. Most European school systems insist on another language until 18, whereas in the UK you can get through with English alone. Although DD was taught Arabic from scratch, it was done at a pretty hefty speed given that it was just an adjunct to the actual politics classes rather than a language degree in itself - you'd want to have previous experience of language learning. So in your DS's position I would want to hear from other UK people on that course, and find out how they coped with all the requirements.

DD went to the University of Geneva as part of her year abroad. They are very well known for educating students for all the international bodies in Geneva. Every one of her Swiss friends spoke English, French and German. One spoke Portuguese as well. DD speaks English, French and Italian but other countries take language learning a lot more seriously much earlier and value it. It’s not dropped in school and it’s seen as important.

Thanks for your input all. Sobering indeed @TizerorFizz and also @Needmoresleep.

DS did French and Spanish at A level, both A*s, (as well as Maths) and is currently learning Hebrew also. He's got a natural propensity for languages hence the original intention to study MFL but he's become intensely interested in politics, philosophy and IR whilst away on his gap year.

My mind is getting a bit blown trying to guide him through the process - there are so many factors at play. Love being a not insignificant one I think. I think I may just step back if I'm honest.

Bristol is great, obvs, but as someone who's been.heavily involved in recruiting for grad+ roles (5 yrs experience) my eyes would light up at someone with a different pathway and the relevant culural experience.
Shows originality and versatility and I would assume maturity and resilience.

Lots of people would just assume rich parents as they are having to pay for it! It’s subjective isn’t it?

Fascinating degree for a linguist with a geopolitical and cultural interest in that region.

IME those hoping for a career using IR (whether it is for policy making or business intelligence) frequently go on to do a Masters with a research project. That will add to the costs and would need to be factored in.

Thanks @KeyErro and @sendsummer for your input. I feel buoyed by your optimism. I am starting to clock that really he'll be OK to make decisions without me fussing and angsting from afar. He's far more switched on that I ever was at that age. He's passionate and conscientious and I suppose even if the degree he ultimately choses isn't as 'well thought of' as a degree in the UK, he'll find his way.

Shame he did a gap year really. As MFL are 4 year degrees anyway and then extra courses or training might be needed, it’s a long haul.

Oh I disagree entirely @TizerorFizz. This gap year has been the making of him and I'm so very happy he's done it. He's happier than ever and ultimately that's all we want for our kids isn't it?

Given COVID I think gap years may have made academic sense too - it has been a tough old slog for students, especially given that many of them would have been away from home for the first time etc.

I have a similarly niche language/ culture degree, although not in Middle Eastern studies and it's been excellent for my completely unconnected career in finance. Really opened doors that were very competitive for students from more traditional pathways.