Environmental Science or Geography?

[busygirl8888]

My DD is studying Biology, Geography and Geology A'levels (with Core Maths AS), and is currently predicted to get three A/A*s.

She is interested in studying Environmental Science at university as she is under the impression this will lead more directly into a job rather than a broader course such as Geography. However, she's noted that the grades requested by RG universities for Environmental Science are often lower than for Geography. eg, ABB as opposed to AAA/AAB and are lower than her predicted grades.

Would she therefore be doing herself a disservice by going for courses with entrance grades lower than she's likely to achieve? Or would she be better to keep it broad at undergraduate level by doing a (physical) geography degree and then specialise with a Masters in Environmental Science later? My concern is that Environmental Science is a newer course which may not be viewed as highly as Geography by employers and that jobs in this area may not pay particularly well. She hopes to obtain a well-paid job and would consider a different industry after graduating or even a law conversion course if necessary.

Also would appreciate any advice on which UK universities are regarded most highly for Environmental Science (or Geography) and how best to find out graduate employability statistics for individual courses? Currently looking at Leeds, Birmingham., Nottingham, York, UEA, Portsmouth. She loved Bristol but they only offer Environmental Geoscience there which is not what she's after.

Realise I've asked a lot of questions here so any advice/info much appreciated!

I do know someone doing Env Science at a RG uni at present. However, like you, I’m not sure it’s the best course of action. They had maths, geography and biology A level.

If you look at salaries for STEM grads, Env Sci is one of the lowest paid. The big issue seems to be the employers are mostly charities and quangos. My DH employs Environmental Engineers and for them, the pay is a lot higher. There’s a shortage of engineers but not scientists.

You might also be aware that Oxford doesn’t offer Env Science as a separate degree. They offer it as part of Geography. I think the huge advantage of Geography is the variety of learning streams and careers that open up. Then there are Masters degrees to develop interests further leading to a career. Friends with Geography degrees are Chartered Surveyors, Planners, Food buyers, sustainable farming advisers, environmental specialist for the NT and quite a few other jobs. So lots of options. I tend to think Env Sci narrows down options but schools seem to sell if as guaranteed employment. It might be but not in particularly high paid work.

There are MSci courses at places like Nottingham for environmental science and if she really wants that subject, I would start by looking there.

DD did Law Conversion. I would not say Env Science was not particularly great for that and the career beyond. Others will disagree but a good old fashioned subject is best!

I think well paid and working in Env Sc are contradictions! Often a broader undergrad with more specialised post graduate is the way to keep options open which would suggest Geog (making sure it's a BSc not a BA).

There is a lot of overlap between the two courses. I'm an environmental scientist and DH is a geography teacher. The environment sector is not well-paid but would give good analytical and critical thinking skills for use in any career.

Sorry, that doesn't help you choose a uni though

The best Env Science courses are the ex Polys and 92 unis generally. They tend to be quite applied science courses and none of the Russell Group or Oxbridge even offered it in the 90s when I did it.
It's a great option for those committed to environmental issues and seeking a career in the sector (be it charity, public or utilities), but maybe not for those looking
for a more traditional sciences career path.

I wouldn't do Env Sci as a first degree.

If she wants to be well paid, depending on how she defines that, then there are well paid jobs in the field but they are not universal. Starting jobs are often paid poorly. And are very competitive.

Env Sci has been around a long time and is certainly not new. Jobs in the sector have definitely increased in number though.

Geography far better for high grade candidates. There are so many constituent modules to a geog degree they can cover the environmental side and as you say options to specialise at post grad. But always best to go for the best university for employment prospects. FWIW my DC did frog at Nottingham as their teacher at school said it was the best course.

DH has a degree in geography and a master in environmental science (Aberystwyth) - he works for a engineering consultancy as an env specialist and is on very good money.

They take on graduates every year for this too,

Nottingham is RG and very good for Geography and Env Sci. It would be top pick for me. It’s a shame she doesn’t want Geology as that’s a reasonably well paid career. I’m not surprised Env Sci jobs are sought after. It’s the Greta effect!

The RG uni sector does offer Env Sci so for future careers and her possible academic results, stay RG if possible. Definitely if she might want Law! Geography would definitely keep more doors open. Also a wider choice of universities.

I used to recruit Environmental Science grads. We had that many applicants that we’d normally only employ those with a Masters & starting salary about 23k. After 5-7 years, they might be on 32-35k ish. This is at a big consultancy too.

We used to get a lot of Geography grads on our Management Consultancy scheme, where they could work on climate or environment linked projects like Net Zero initiatives in the workplace. Starting salary at 29k, going up to 40-45 after 5-7 years.

So a big difference in how to apply the same skills.

Ds graduated with BSc Geography and Environmental Science from Dundee - one of best places to currently study this combination ( and a very flexible course structure)
He had then planned to do MSc in Environmental Science at Exeter ( penrhyn campus) however lockdown put him off further studying and he got on Barclays grad scheme as data analyst- starting salary of £40k & £5k welcome bonus

Dd left a RG uni after beginning an Environmental Science course. Her interests lie in ecology, conservation, sustainability and agriculture so on paper the course seemed perfect for her. She also believed it would lead more directly to a job.

However it was quite different to what she expected - too broad in some areas and too specific in others, in the end there was only one module that she properly enjoyed which was called sustainable development. The course was apparently very "sciencey" (I did raise my eyebrows at this - it's in the name! ) I think she was under the impression that it was simply geography under a different title, when it definitely is not.

She has reapplied for Geography and believes this won't be limiting any career choices. A friend of hers is doing Geography at another RG uni and they seem to have a good range of environmental options.
Happy to ask dd any questions!

Hmm. I studied Geography many moons ago and it definitely qualified me for nothing. I almost jumped ship for an environmental science degree but was too cowardly. So the subject isn't new. I think she should study the different syllabuses and find something that fits her interests as precisely as possible.

University of East Anglia always used to have a good reputation for environmental science courses.

@chillied

20 years ago isn’t now. So many Geography courses have environmental options. Many more students do masters afterwards. You need to have an interest in something and go for it.

Sustainable development is a big thing and planning is an obvious route to work in that field. Or working for a housing company or the Environment Agency. DH employs Environmental Engineers who design the solutions to environmental issues, eg flooding and ground water management solutions. So there are different avenues you can consider. I think Geography gives lots of options but you need to choose a career avenue and get further qualifications. It’s like saying a History or English degree qualifies you for nothing - it’s a launch pad. So is Geography.

Thank you everyone for all your really helpful replies: it does look like it would be a good idea for her to keep her options option with a Geography undergraduate degree (BSc) and then specialise later. Will certainly look at Nottingham and other RG unis so will get onto that - thank you!

Liverpool and Birmingham are strong for Env Sci so look at their Geography courses for overlap.

Ds decided not to do geography as after a lot of research it’s a really interesting course, loads of stuff about hazards but actually it is too broad and you aren’t specialised enough in anything. He decided on environmental earth science and landed a job straight away as a environmental geologist engineer.

It really depends on what she wants to do. Environmental jobs are not well paid but if that's the sector you want them env sci degree might be more useful. I work with far more people with that background that geography, dealing with environmental issues associated with planning and development. Geography is broader but won't be as useful if she wants to work on pollution control or ecology for instance. If she doesn't want to use the technical knowledge from the degree and go into management etc then she could do either.

@Custardpudding
Geography is always a broad degree and doesn’t specialise. That’s the point. It does lead to a variety of careers and would be better for law conversion. Leads to better paid jobs overall due to breadth and further study that’s available. If DC know exactly what they want, then maybe Env Sci is best. Also the OP said geology wasn’t what she wanted and without maths A level, engineering looks difficult.

I was under the impression that geography degrees are very highly thought of these days because as @TizerorFizz says they are so general and can lead on to all sorts of different things, ranging from ecology and environmental concerns to tourism to planning to disaster management. Yes you might need a further degree/professional qualifications after a geography degree but it keep all sorts of doors open.

Environmental Science might lead more directly onto a job but only in Environmental Science, which is fine if a student is absolutely sure that is what they want to do.

Has your DD perhaps thought about the environment degrees at LSE? I believe KCL as well has good environmental science programs.

@downtonabbeyfan1234

I don't think she's keen on going to a London uni, but will take a look, thanks.