Art foundation in London area

[onedayoranother]

My daughter is in lower sixth and the pressure is on. She's taking Art, History snd Psychology, and her intention is to do an art foundation year. She would like to go near home which limits us to London. While there's plenty out there about the difficulty on getting into individual universities, I can't tell how this works with a foundation year. I know some (UAL for example)) say if you get on to their foundation course you will be offered a degree place, so I would imagine the competition is tough. I've narrowed it down to Camberwell , Kingston, Kings, City and Guilds (though less keen as she wants to do animation). Maybe less competition at C& G as you have to pay. Any others ? Ravensbourne perhaps. She is not necessarily tied to staying in London for her degree (animation), however she might, and if getting on a particular foundation year leads to a degree at that university it's an important decision.
Am I correct in that it is pretty much down to her portfolio? Her GCSEs were mostly 8s and a couple 9s and a 7, too soon to predict A levels but I expect something like two As and a B. She is also doing an EPQ. But the art unis don't seem to have particularly high grade requirements.
My worry is that with applications to universities you pick a safety, an aspirational etc but can't tell how that works with foundation years (and what if she doesn't get in to any)?!? She is talented though.

@pinkprettyroses

I'd also say in terms UAL vs Ravensbourne , UAL is a much more 'professional' university, but much more independent working/networking is required than Ravensbourne.

This is helpful. I would also like to know about the specialism of different places - eg does Camberwell have a reputation of being particularly strong on animation, CSM for sculpture or Ravenbourne for something else? What would make toy apply for one place over another? I think DD wants to paint. I know a lot about universities and university applications but nothing about art schools.

My husband teaches animation at university level and with all his contacts we still found selecting and Art foundation really hard. Yes, there are local ones and probably that is a good option if you’re happy when you see what the course has to offer. But it’s a chance to get a taste of university to if your teen is readying
We helped (research, portfolio and financial support) our DD get into Kingston. She was ready to leave home (stuck with us over lockdown) and the course came highly recommended. She absolutely loves it and the area is great with access to London galleries etc. Very hard work and lots of (hopefully healthy) pressure. Students and tutors very supportive. I think it’s probably very competitive (we were told 1:15) to get on to, so do take this into consideration. It really isn’t easy to find and judge these courses. Of course helping them navigate all the information out there is the best thing. Any more questions, just ask. Good luck.

Thanks so much everyone. She has registered with the April open day at Kingston, which is closest to us. Interesting feedback about Ravensbourne. We will probably go to one of the upcoming open days there as you never know.
She just had a wobble as she's been researching 2D animation in the industry and it's mostly used in TV and marketing rather than films, snd she wonders if it's dying out. Flash is awful but is used increasingly as a bridge and can the diehard animators sustain themselves?
@Soma I'll look at those alternatives, and I have checked out Rookies which does rank Uni of Hertfordshire as highest so a consideration for the degree.
@duchessofmuchos my friend's daughter got into Central to do fashion after foundation at City and Guilds. She liked City but don't know how she feels about CSM yet. Another's daughter did her foundation at CSM in fashion and found it awful - said it was just like her gcse course. She's going to do something non art or fashion related now. She also said they are NOT automatically given a degree place (and if you wanted fashion why would you accept a different degree course) but more an interview.
@TizerorFizz as I said Bournemouth turned out to be mostly online, they actively lied about the accommodation which left the girl feeling unsafe, and there was no support.
I may be 'overthinking' but this is the steppingstone to her degree. It's more important than A levels.

The portfolio is what counts. But A levels are taken into account.

There are also numerous post grad courses for film production so maybe look at a suitable first degree and then specialise.

Yes thank you @TizerorFizz. I'm more easy going about it as I have the life experience! But a 16 year old seems to think one false move and it's game over! She's probably going to get AAB or better at A levels, but as you say it's the portfolio that counts! She's finally settled on her theme and is more motivated now they are doing proper work towards the A level. She's keen on a year abroad or year work experience as part of her degree.

@ukborn
My DD had to find work experurbve on her degree and it wax really hard to find. There was no help from the university. So check this out before any decision. If it’s abroad, make sure it’s not you having to find the placement.

Even on a four year course? My impression was they had reciprocal ties with the universities in other countries (one actually lists them). As for work experience - well noted I will definitely find out about that. My son had to find his own work experience on his vocational course even though they made it sound like their 'extensive connections within the industry' would have it taken care of.

No she did a 3 year course with 3 months work experience @ukborn. However don’t expect ent university to get you the work experience for a year. They have connections but never enough. University exchange is completely different.,

DC has 3 friends who all did their foundation years at Kingston and loved it. I would really advise to steer away from the likes of Morley City Lit etc brilliant as they are in their ways. The are very much FE colleges that put courses together to create a foundation year rather than art colleges that are looking at developing you to progress. (I say this with no grudge as i was a governor of such an institution for a while and love it and have done many courses there myself but it is not a place for a young person to have a fun and sociable foundation year).

Thanks @londonmummy1966 good to know - I knew a woman who did jewellery at Morley she always praised it but you are right she was middle aged just went in for the class!

DD missed the uk application deadline for Kingston Foundation (entry Sept 22). There are extenuating circumstances but is it worth contacting them directly to see if they'd still consider her?

Yes I would. Explain the extenuating circumstances and see what they say. What have you got to learn se - they'll either say yes or no but at least then you knew w you've tried.

What have you got to lose. - sorry

If she knows she wants to do animation already, why is she keen to do a foundation course?

I’m an ex Camberwell student but no idea how they are on animation now. I would imagine all the usual suspects would offer great courses though so Camberwell, CSM, LCC, Kingston, or Ravensbourne.

I’d recommend researching the tutors teaching animation at the various colleges to see the kinds of work they do so your daughter can see who she feels she aligns with the most. A friend teaches animation and is an animator with many awards and now working on a feature film - he has a very particular style still doing stop frame animation with a very individual way of model making (Bobby Yeah was one of his films) which is obviously a completely different style to Pixar.

Then go and visit. We’re doing the rounds at the moment as my youngest is going to be applying for entry in 2023. So far we’ve been to Falmouth (I was incredibly impressed by their teaching staff and their obvious care, passion and interest in the students and their work and their own professional work was outstanding. We turned out to have a lot of professional connections in common. Daughter really liked but I think she may be hankering after city life). Norwich (not a favourite), Manchester is next up - their courses look to be outstanding with a year in industry which is a great bonus in the competitive creative fields. I did unpaid work experience for three months post degree before landing my first job. We will look also at LCC and Ravensbourne but the London student experience is a bit diluted because the city is so huge.

All the well known London art colleges have excellent professional networks and contacts though.

@PerkyBlinder
Again, make sure the university has enough placements for all students. Lots of unis leave the students to find their own and merely offer a few suggestions and guidance. They rarely have enough contacts go round and find out if placements are competitive. Really do drill down on this.

Most students do a foundation to ensure their portfolio is good enough. My DD did hers at school but Art and Photography A levels had early submissions of work so her schedule was manic and pressured. Lots of students simply don’t want this and the Foundation allows prep of the portfolio in a less pressured environment. But it’s not vital and DD was ok without. We did find out some universities want a foundation (told DD during interview!) but say they take A levels without a foundation. There are very mixed messages from some universities.

I've narrowed it down to Camberwell , Kingston, Kings, City and Guilds (though less keen as she wants to do animation)

i know it’s reasonable to help, and I’ve done a ton of research for my own Dd, but your post does come across as you’ve done it all. You shouldn't be narrowing courses down for her, you should be giving her all her options.

also when you say she’s staying at home, in London that can still mean over an hour travel, especially in peak times, and depending on tube lines and bus routes.

is there any area of London she can’t get to easily? Have you thought of
looking outside? It may be as easy to travel to a nearby county than across london. I can get to family in sheffield quicker than I can get from north london to south!

i’d stop narrowing and making her choices and present her with every place that does a foundation year. You don’t seem to know what she wants to focus on, so she may need to be looking at each course herself to see what content inspires her.

@TizerorFizz
That’s a good point re placements. The good colleges tend to have industry agencies/studios etc keen to pick up talent from the colleges but you do have to be pro active and network like crazy. I’ve been on the other side where I’m inundated with requests for internships. Generally it came down to personality and if someone was friendly, helpful, able, keen, had tons of initiative, great work ethic, good ideas, and picked things up quickly. We had a steady stream of interns and very very few stood out. One I sent home after two days as she was a complete liability and had an ego the size of a small planet like she was doing us a favour! She lost me hours of work after not listening and deleting something so I told her not to come back. I gave jobs to or passed on details for everyone who stood out. I remember two students in particular and am still in touch with both. One was a student from Camberwell and one was from Nottingham Trent.

Foundation courses to me are just to work out what to specialise in and many students benefit from the extra year to work that out. For some students it’s really clear where their talents lie which is the case for my DD and many animators would also know from the first time they animate something. I think students with the talent to succeed in the competitive creative industry tend to really stand out a mile in school and their portfolios reflect this. But this isn’t the case for everyone and some people develop skills through hard work and perseverance or they just haven’t found their medium yet hence foundation being a great route for them.

@PerkyBlinder
DD didn’t want a Foundation and was lucky enough to board and have the school studios open to her at weekends. Lots of DC don’t have this and do need more time for a portfolio. I certainly take the point about people really knowing what they want but some universities are sniffy if you haven’t done a foundation.

@TizerorFizz
Maybe it depends on the specialism chosen and university in terms of requirements.

It certainly used to be impossible to say study graphic design without first doing a foundation course. But equally art teaching in schools was mostly absolutely terrible and there were no graphic design or photography single subject a levels back then but just art a level.

The work being produced at A level now is very comparable to what used to be produced at foundation level and many students can now study more than one creative a level.

Can you mention the unis who were wanting a foundation course as would be good to know so we know to avoid them! My DD was looking at Edinburgh but though she loves the uni, the course just doesn’t look a good fit. I can imagine they’d prefer a foundation course.

Your DD was very fortunate to have the facilities available over the weekend and it is a crazy workload. My DD is in first year of sixth form but put in over 30 hours one week just on her art side project. To be honest though art/creative subjects do require a massive amount of pure graft and you have to love it to want to put the hours in. Most people with the ability and drive/commitment will succeed though and it’s a hugely rewarding career. I am always learning and always progressing and still love the work decades later. I hope your DD is enjoying her work still now. 🙂

Just to add to the chat... my DD wants to do a textiles degree. She applied directly to 5 unis with a portfolio developed through her A level textiles and a number of short courses she's been on. She has also applied for a foundation year at a couple of places.
Unis are - NTU, Lboro, AUB, Southampton (Winchester School of Art) & Edinburgh. She received 4 conditional offers based on her portfolio and decided to withdraw from Edinburgh as (by end of March) they still hadn't offered and she wanted to firm NTU so she could apply for accommodation.
Happy to provide a bit more info on all the Unis we visited......

This was a few years ago: Brighton was the offender. I’ve seen other courses say they prefer a foundation too.

DD applied for Photography there. Sent in best 8 images portfolio on Flickr as required. Got interview. They said they preferred students with a foundation in her interview. She strongly suspected the lecturer didn’t want A level students. He asked why she hadn’t been to their open day. Apparently she would have known the answer to a question if she had! Her school only allowed minimal time out for open days. Their course info detailed A level entry requirement. One male lecturer and a student interviewed DD. Neatly 3 hours late after we bust a gut to get there. It was a total shambles. She declined them on 30 April! Never heard anything from them. Course went into clearing.

So avoid Brighton! DD did a course at UAL (not photography) and is currently retraining for something else which requires art and design but is a lot more likely to lead to employment. However DD at 17/18 really did want the course at UAL. She got A in Art and A* in Photography. I never did understand what Brighton wanted but my DD wasn’t it.

She never heard from LCC either. So both Brighton and LCC were declined by DD without her being rejected or accepted by 30 April.

Oh I forgot to add that Edinburgh's first year is an integrated foundation.

I don’t know if this will help anyone but I found the process complicated so I’ll share what I know.

The hubby teaches animation (was a director in animation for 17 years). He says that the students who come with art foundation are more mature and have a better idea of how to work alone on projects etc. However, they interview at his Uni based on portfolio and would accept someone straight from A level if the work was good enough.

My DD got into Kingston to do foundation, but she also applied to a local one for back up.

She has really enjoyed Kingston. It’s a full time course and they’ve worked them in groups and alone. A hell of a lot of time was on producing a portfolio. The work she is doing is a lot more independent and original than what was expected at A level.

She applied to four universities and got unconditional offers at all of them, including Brighton. No interviews, all offers on her portfolio. The courses are mixed from film to illustration. She’s decided to stay at Kingston and do illustration and animation.

i asked her and she only knows one person who didn’t get into her first choice University from Kingston.

One thing to be aware of is how quickly they are asked to specialize - even at foundation. By Christmas she had to chose Vis Com. A few weeks after she had to pick between illustration and graphics.

The whole process for applying to art foundation/university is quite complicated as there are no standard portfolios requests.

The brilliant thing about foundation is they are amongst other budding artists. The course fees are paid. The equipment might be good. They get to experiment and express away from the strictures of the A level syllabus.

Good luck 🍀

DD got her first Choice.
I suspect visual communication is different from what DD was applying for which wasn’t quite the same at 5 universities. In the days when you submitted a whole portfolio in person, you took it with you. The easily submissions seemed to be shortlisting.

Yes they were all different. As we knew nothing of the process or suitable courses it was hard to advise. No industry connection at all here. Also, as if turned out, low prospects of employment!