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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Bristol or Warwick for Philosophy?

100 replies

Coroico97 · 11/02/2022 19:06

DS has offers from both and slightly prefers the content of the Warwick course - with politics and law. Am wondering if anyone has a view on how different the two unis are with face to face vs online now? Also in terms of enjoying student life without a car maybe Bristol would be better? I know Warwick is spread out and he might have further to travel. Any views of any aspect gratefully received! Thanks.

OP posts:
spacehardware · 22/02/2022 09:33

I did philosophy at Bristol in the 90s

It is worth googling some of the recent goings on at the university, and especially the philosophy department, re gender / identity politics. To my mind the place has gone mad. It might be right up your child's street tho. But best to go knowing, if he's expecting it to be brideshead revisited it is not

mumsneedwine · 22/02/2022 09:39

@spacehardware all Unis have that same issue. Google Nottingham Uni gender stuff !
As over 80% of the Uni is ex state school I'm not sure Brideshead was ever the case. I'm thinking all these posh people must all stick together as DD knows none of them. She's yet to get an invite to any ski lodges or yachts. Unfortunately. Did go to Cornwall camping in friends garden.
It's just a Uni, like any other. Full of students from all backgrounds, who have differing opinions. Seems there is perception it's full of boarding school types who all go rah 😵‍💫

spacehardware · 22/02/2022 09:40

When I was there it was very very rah indeed. It was quite some time ago of course

mumsneedwine · 22/02/2022 09:44

@spacehardware maybe DD will get that ski chalet invite sometime soon 😊.

Needmoresleep · 22/02/2022 09:48

I fail to follow the reference to boarding schools. Private vs state seems a MN obsession. I agree that some of the boarding school kids will stick together. But then cliques will always form because some will always want to stick with those of similar backgrounds. I think you have previously suggested that your DD focussed her friendships around those from state school backgrounds. Previous school is not a subject that comes up with DDs friends, and even when it has they have not heard of hers.

Money can be a divider in that the classic Bristol clubbing, coffee shop, taxi life style takes money. As does living in Clifton in your second year. Our observation was that this was more about how much money students had, and that previous education really is not a good predictor. Some kids just had loads of money. Mine does not. Nor do many of her friends. It does not worry her.

Whether Bristol is hard to get into is relative. For many subjects, Warwick, London and Oxbridge will be harder or have higher grade requirements. At the Warwick open day there were lots of 17 year old boys with their mums (I was surprised to be invited until I realised he had only booked me into the car park but none of the talks.) They may have been from the north, or south, private or state, or of whatever ethnicity, but looked the sort of people my son would like to hang out with.

Again, city or campus. Course. Perceived fit. Then as a tie breaker ease of access and cost of accommodation.

OnlyAFleshWound · 22/02/2022 09:58

[quote mumsneedwine]@OnlyAFleshWound my DD has been to many Bat Mitzvahs and was always shocked by the security guards on the doors. In a leafy part of S London.
I hope their generation start making things better for when your DD is old enough to go. [/quote]
Thank you Flowers Yes, we're in North London and heavy security on all synagogues, Jewish schools and functions is standard. And necessary Sad
I really hope it gets better in the next few years, but honestly, the way things are going, I'm not that optimistic.

mumsneedwine · 22/02/2022 10:05

@Needmoresleep someone brought it up that it was an easy link between boarding schools and Uni. I know nothing about them so can't comment.
I was only trying to show that the perception of Bristol as being full of very posh, very rich students wasn't our experience. DD is happiest when covered in some kind of animal goop.
And DDs course is hard to get into anywhere. As is yours 😊. Although Warwick and Oxford don't offer it. And only RVC in London. Very limited choices (especially as applying to Scotland is virtually impossible these days).
There is a Uni out there for everyone. Just don't listen to any of us - make own decisions based on offer holder days. Which must be back in person by now (I hope !).
Been a pleasure this morning. Have to go mark 145 year 13 PPEs. This has been more fun 😊.

Needmoresleep · 22/02/2022 10:54

A weird post from mumsneedwine. And misleading. I was clear to mention entry requirements. Bristol does an awful lot of contextualisation. Its entry requirements, including for medicine when DD applied, were lower than elsewhere. (They have since changed their approach meaning DD and many of her friends would not get in if applying now.) I perfectly accept that vetmed is different. It is only offered by about four/five places so getting a place anywhere is an achievement. This is not true of most subjects.

Entry requirements are worth having a glance at, as is the average score on entry, which can be found on the Complete University Guide tables. One thing that put DS off Bristol was that their contextual A level maths requirement was quite low, and they were not offering a summer school catch up. He was predicted A in FM and wanted a course where he would not have to repeat too much. Hence, if he had had a choice he would have gone for Warwick which had been looking for an A in maths, rather than a B.

Again fit. Sort out what is important to you, and then look to see what each University offers.

I also agree with spacehardware. Bristol has one of the only two medical ethics departments in the country. Unlike Oxford, it is heavily tilted towards the US approach to gender medicine, hosting conferences and the like. The law department also contains its share of US influenced teachers, pushing the barriers in a UK context.

It was a problem for one of DDs peers who was interested in ethics as an intercalation but Oxford does not take external students and though they personally were more interested in disability/mental health rather than gender issues, they were put off by the composition of the Bristol department.

The Jewish thing is real. DD is appalled by some of the stuff she sees on messaging groups, and I know has stuck her head out once or twice to point out something that is unacceptable. (And been "punished" for doing so.) But, like the GC thing, it is difficult. I can understand some of the overseas students not understanding that the UK is, or should be, welcoming to people of all creeds, and I think it would be useful if there were some introductory briefing covering what behaviours are, or are not accepted. (Actually the same would have been useful when I was at University and the only Brit and the only woman on my course.) But actually the problem is far from confined to overseas students. Its like the left of the Labour party. The only think allowed appears to be group think. Not good if you are a woman, Jewish, if you play a lot of sport, or indeed if you don't fit.

Looking back at the posts mumsneedwine repeatedly mentions private or boarding schools as if they are the cause of any problems. Mine only went private because they did not get into a grammar or a selective state school, and we did not want to move, gain religion, or do what most people did and rent in a different catchment. Unfortunately our catchment school, with 93% FSM really could not offer the sort of academic stretch we wanted our children to have. I find the private=rich=posh=entitled=dim MN tropes tedious. Some may be, but there are also plenty of parents who struggle to find the fees in order to do their best for their DC.

spacehardware · 22/02/2022 11:00

"Its like the left of the Labour party. The only think allowed appears to be group think. Not good if you are a woman, Jewish, if you play a lot of sport, or indeed if you don't fit"

As a working class woman, a feminist, and the wife of a Jewish man, the modern left makes me want to weep. Or scream

mumsneedwine · 22/02/2022 13:26

Oh dear. Was trying to be nice. But apparently I'm now weird. Not sure why you don't like me @Needmoresleep but each to their own.

mumsneedwine · 22/02/2022 13:30

PS I teach at a school with over 50% FSM. We get 15+ into Oxbridge every year. Have 22 hopeful medics this year. I have nothing against any type of school but please don't pretend that sending your children to a £30,000 a year school is anything but the preserve of the v v wealthy. Most people don't have a choice but to go to their local comp. And they still get to those 'prestigious' Unis or into competitive courses.

Muchtootall · 22/02/2022 19:38

I can’t talk about philosophy or uni politics but can offer thoughts on the two universities. My DD is at Bristol and it is indeed very woke and whilst most unis are these days, it does seem a degree more than some others. Having said that, she has enjoyed the largely laid back culture in Bristol. It seems that there is a bit of a private/state divide as the two groups seem to cluster around different halls. She was in Wills which seemed to have a lot of private and public school kids. She said that lots of state school DC wanted halls with en-suites or self catering. Wills offered neither of these so by default got the boarding school DC (who were used to being given food and sharing bathrooms) and the students from other schools had largely arrived there through clearing. Thanks to Wills, though, she has a mix of friends from boarding, private and state grammar schools but interestingly no one else from a comprehensive school.

She has loved living in Clifton (at vast expense) because unlike in her first year in hall, she is close to everything she wants. She would have loved being on a campus in her first year but would have hated moving out in 2nd year and having to travel into uni every day as Warwick students do. My DC also didn’t like the fact that there are no catered halls at Warwick. She really wanted catered in her first year even though she could cook very well (benefit of food science GCSE).

She has a few good friends at Warwick. They have loved the uni but it’s undoubtedly more hassle in the second and third year. Most end up in Leamington and have to travel onto campus each day. You can’t just pop back to your room in between lecturers as my DD can do. Whilst Leamington is lovely and apparently has some nice bars, restaurants etc, it’s a small town. For bigger clubs, her friends have to go to Coventry (not a nice or safe city in my limited experience) or trek all the way to Birmingham. They can get trains but you need to get to the train station and the trains aren’t running when they want to come back!

In short, she is pleased she chose Bristol and would definitely recommend the uni.

Philandbill · 22/02/2022 20:28

@Muchtootall I agree with you that Bristol is a prettier city than Coventry. I also agree with you that you have limited experience of Coventry as "not a nice or safe city in my limited experience" A quick Google of crime rates shows that crimes per 1000 people in Bristol is 101 but in Coventry the comparable rate is only 40...

Ted27 · 22/02/2022 20:50

I really wish people with no real knowledge of Coventry, or any other city for that matter, would stop making sweeping statements about whether or not somewhere is nice or safe.
When I arrived in Coventry in the 1980s it was a bit grim but then so were many places in the 1980s.
Its been completely transformed, particularly in the last three years, the town centre has been revamped, the worst of the 1960s buildings have gone, its modern but looks good. With approaching 60 thousand students across 2 universities it has all the bars, restaurents, clubs, cafes etc you would expect to see. The City of Culture this year has been a great success and has brought back into use a number of old venues.

Yes there is crime, yes there are problems but no city is free from that.

Perhaps you should come and stay at one of our new hotels, go to an event at Drapers Hall, the Cathedral, or the Guildhall when it reopens and see for yourself.

Daisysway · 22/02/2022 23:52

Totally agree @Ted27. I come from the West Midlands and remember Coventry in the 70s and 80s...:-(

I was somewhat disappointed when my daughter decided to live in Canley rather than Leamington this year... Despite covid her group of friends had managed to get out and about during their 1st year and the concensus of opinion was that they wanted to be nearer Coventry in the 2nd year rather than Leamington (dd has multi cultural friends and they all felt Coventry was more affordable too).

Ive visited dd quite a few times (work around the bham area quite a bit) always stay in the Premier Inn linked to the Albany Theatre (wonderful building) and we eat out in Coventry... What a transformation... Catherdral lanes offer some wonderful places to eat out... Cosy club is excellent. Its a little sad that the city of culture did not have the year it should have had because of Covid but certainly isnt the 60s nightmare it used to be.

I still hate the concrete ring road, but with a little more investment Coventry will shine and become more popular...

Muchtootall · 23/02/2022 09:41

Sorry if offended people from Coventry but having contacts in the police in the area, the general consensus of experience is that there is a lot of violent crime committed in Coventry compared to surrounding areas of Warwickshire and the Midlands. However ai recognise that may be limited to a few areas and students are unaffected.

Ted27 · 23/02/2022 09:57

Coventry is the safest city in the West Midlands, and is the 22nd safest overall out of the West Midlands's 44 towns, villages, and cities. The overall crime rate in Coventry in 2021 was 40 crimes per 1,000 people. This compares favourably to the West Midlands's overall crime rate, coming in 13% lower than the West Midlands rate of 45 per 1,000 residents. For England, Wales, and Northern Ireland as a whole, Coventry is the second safest city, and the 4,700th most dangerous location out of all towns, cities, and villages.

Coroico97 · 23/02/2022 10:02

Thanks to everyone for their different insights. It is really interesting. We have dates for the offer holder open days and maybe I will get an invitation or, maybe I too will be left in the car park!!

Can I ask, if there is no catered accommodation in the first year is it still easy to make friends and meet people at Warwick? I get the impression the accommodation is quite spread out. Do the first years all stick to same area? And how do you know when you start? Hope this isn’t a silly question. I didn’t go to university.

OP posts:
Ted27 · 23/02/2022 10:02

@Daisysway

yes the Albany Theatre is a thing of beauty, I live 5 minutes walk away. next time you stay, walk up Albany Road to Earlsdon Street where we have a range of really good independent restaurants - Italian, Indian, Turkish
Speaking as a City Host and resident, the City of Culture has been a great success - I could be out doing something every day. And its not over yet - 5 months to run

Muchtootall · 23/02/2022 16:51

That’s interesting about the crime rates in Coventry. It was only a few years ago that Coventry was declared the most dangerous city in the UK and the 7th most dangerous in Europe. I must admit I have not visited since before Covid so much might have changed but 3 years ago I really did not like the town centre. It seemed full of concrete and very depressing to me. Having said that, apart from Clifton, and the old dock lands area, I don’t think city centre Bristol is particularly nice.

None of that takes away from the fact that Warwick is still a great university.

Ted27 · 23/02/2022 17:12

@Muchtootall

As I said upthread, Coventry town centre has been completely revamped over the last three years. A lot of the 1960s brutalist buildings have gone. You can’t get away from the fact that the town centre was flattened in the Blitz. Its never going to have the feel of a York, Bristol or Liverpool, the buildings are just not there.
It is what is is
And yes Warwick is a great uni - in Coventry

thing47 · 23/02/2022 17:12

I thought that was Nottingham @Muchtootall? I remember when DD started there a few years ago everyone told us it was a really violent city. DD cheerfully told us it was dubbed 'the murder capital of Europe'. She had no issues there at all.

All big cities have some dodgy areas, don't they, particularly for young women? Sad but true so you need to be aware of the fact.

Daisysway · 23/02/2022 17:41

@Coroico97... Warwick is quite good because it sends out questionnaires when you are applying for accommodation to find out about your social and bedtime habits eg whether you are a party animal or you like to go to bed at 11pm (or earlier) etc. It then tries to match everyone in households where they may find like minded students.

Dd didnt struggle finding friends even though her 1st year was badly affected by covid. Two of her closest friends now are 1st year housemates.

She was in a household of 12 and they all adapted well to living together and sharing facilities. They had their differences but they used to have house meetings to sort the issues out. It was a very diverse household but they socialised together, cooked together and generally looked out for each other. Celebrating birthdays, Halloween and Xmas...

There are many societies and clubs and you get to know your tutor group quite well (dd in a group of 6... who meet up for coffees etc)

Self catering seems to work well, dd really learnt to cook incredibly well with tips from others and they helped each other out when someone had run out of milk or bread etc, or if they had an extra portion for someone who wasnt a keen cook.

ShanghaiDiva · 23/02/2022 23:52

@Coroico97

Thanks to everyone for their different insights. It is really interesting. We have dates for the offer holder open days and maybe I will get an invitation or, maybe I too will be left in the car park!!

Can I ask, if there is no catered accommodation in the first year is it still easy to make friends and meet people at Warwick? I get the impression the accommodation is quite spread out. Do the first years all stick to same area? And how do you know when you start? Hope this isn’t a silly question. I didn’t go to university.

My ds also had a good experience re people in his flat in Warwick and three of them shared a house together in years two and three. He lived in Coventry in years two and three as did not want to stay on campus all day and travelling back and forth from leamington multiple times is not possible. He lived about 30 mins walk from campus.
Muchtootall · 26/02/2022 11:36

@Ted27 I will just add that I am a Warwick graduate although many moons ago so I do know where it is located!

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