Probably a stupid question but how do you go about choosing a university?

[Exhausteddog]

I feel a bit silly asking this but how do you choose which unis you want to visit/put on a short list? What makes one better than another?

DD is currently in year 11. She's done well in all subjects (although I'm mindful I think they made the mark scheme quite generous) but she's drawn towards creative subjects, and that's what she is planning to study at A level and potentially beyond.

SIL said she advised her DC to choose unis within a 2 or 3 hour drive of home so they could visit regularly (my DSis went to a uni 6 hrs away and was really homesick, but it meant she rarely came home for weekends and it was a long way for my parents to drive to see her)

DD is incredibly shy. She won't even say hello to a (very nice and friendly, female) neighbour, or answer the door to people she knows. She has talked about trying to go to the same uni as a friend. I know you probably shouldn't choose a uni based on where friends are going but what, ideally, should we be looking at? (if 10 unis have a fine art course for example, how do you narrow down which ones to visit or consider on a shortlist?)

Thank you all so much for the advice and not laughing at the question! I feel like we've got some starting points now, even if we still have plenty of time.
I am encouraging confidence and talking to other people. She has a small pt job helping younger kids at a sports club she goes to, although the other way she tries to earn a bit of money is selling things on vinted, which obviously doesn't enhance any social skills. She is actually quite independent and organised, and is apparently "the mum" in her group of friends - she just hates talking to people (apart from her friends!)
Agree that planning to go with a friend is risky even in terms of whether they both even would get offered something at the same place or get the required grades, before thinking about what it will be like when they are there.
When people mention "prestigious" what does that mean.(sorry!!) I know Oxbridge and Russell group unis are favoured (although I wasn't sure if this included creative subjects) or should I be looking at how they rank on Sunday Times list etc.

It’s too early for this IMO. But towards end of year 12, she will probably have an idea what she actually wants to study. First find which universities offer that course-DD only had 8 to pick from. Visit those places. See if she likes them-by how they feel, how happy current students are, accommodation, course curriculum and also where they are. DD found by travelling that actually she didn’t want to be too far from home as the journeys had put her off. This all helped to make her decision.

I on the other hand went as far away as I could get!

I think there is a balance to be struck between doing the course you want to do and finding a place where you have the facilities that work for you.

So for the second for example, my ds wanted to go to a campus university, so that accommodation, student union and lecture block were all within walking distance, but not too far from decent town/city for social life. Also things like cost of accommodation (and availability) and accessibility - can you get there on train/bus relatively easily. He ended up at Nottingham which ticked all those boxes AND had the course he wnated to do.

For the first one, she needs to look at reviews of her subject and see who is offering the course options that she wants, not all art courses are the same.

For the course, for arts subjects I am going to be a bit controversial, what sort of job does she envisage from them? There are dozens of art graduates every year who can't get jobs. It is really worth thinking about what direction your art could take you in. What sort of job do you want and then possibly thinking slightly more commercially about your uni course.

I don't know enough about art to suggest courses, but a similar example might be - Geography - do you do a straight geography course, or do you look at courses like environmetal science, or meterology.

Art is a bit different because it's very common to do a Foundation year at an art college before starting a degree course. It's a long time ago but this was crucial for my sibling who had never done very well at school but really blossomed during that year and went on to do a degree, got a 2.1 and has never looked back in a long successful career as a designer.

Hope it hasn't changed in recent years. Someone was telling me recently that the Foundation year is still funded so doesn't attract fees, but you'd need to check the details there.

For the course, for arts subjects I am going to be a bit controversial, what sort of job does she envisage from them? There are dozens of art graduates every year who can't get jobs. It is really worth thinking about what direction your art could take you in. What sort of job do you want and then possibly thinking slightly more commercially about your uni course.

We did look at a chart of earnings based on what type of course students took and art and design was the lowest.....although DH and I could probably have guessed that as we both work in that field and have very average salaries (although not university educated)

DD is incredibly shy. She won't even say hello to a (very nice and friendly, female) neighbour, or answer the door to people she knows.
They can change a lot from Y11.

What is she doing for sixth form - staying in her comfortable bubble or trying somewhere new? I should imagine that sixth form provision for 'creative subjects' varies wildly so she needs to think about that first.

Remember that she doesn’t need to go straight to university from school.

One of ours worked for three years before deciding that he did actually need a degree in order to progress further. As he already had A levels, he got offers of places straight away. All very low stress, really (in retrospect it would have been more fun not to do most of his university time mid pandemic, but there are some things you can’t foresee!).

What @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g says is still true - if you are talking about fine art or design she would normally do a foundation year which is applied for outside UCAS. It is funded so other than living expenses should be free, though you should check.
I keep hearing it doesn't really matter where you do the foundation year (meaning it doesn't have to be somewhere like Camberwell) but I don't see how this can be absolutely true - surely a place that has a better reputation for its degrees would provide a better foundation course?
The creative fields are certainly one field not likely to be replaced by a computer any time soon, but it is generally not well paid. But money isn't the only reason to pick a field of study - personal satisfaction and passion are more important to me than being able to afford an expensive car. As long as she will eventually be self supporting then if this is what she's interested in I'd support it.
But as to your original question, you do a search and pick the unis offering the course she is interested in, narrow it down to the ones she is likely to get in to, then go visit them!

What@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0gsays is still true - if you are talking about fine art or design she would normally do a foundation year which is applied for outside UCAS. It is funded so other than living expenses should be free, though you should check.

Thank you both for clarifying - I was unsure of this as when I did A levels (mid 1990s) this was the case with art that majority of art degrees required you to do a foundation year. It was something I was considering but I didn't go to uni in the end (or do the foundation course!)

@Exhausteddog
My DD went to the London College of Fashion. It’s part of UAL and they do Foundation Courses. A number of colleges are under their umbrella and that’s a good place to start looking. There are good regional foundation courses so she might be able to stay local for a year which will enable her to mature. Good arts students will find these courses useful for preparing a portfolio which otherwise will have to be done at school. DD did the latter and it’s hard work!

There are big hitters in fine arts. Places we have heard of such as Slade. However she might want to investigate design, fashion, photography and other art subjects. Some universities like Bath Spa are more relaxed than anywhere in London. I would look at location as well as prestige. Where could she happily live? I second looking at rankings of arts universities but accept getting a job isn’t easy.

It’s not too early to start looking.
You are right. Going with a friend won’t work. But making friends on a foundation year and moving forward with them might be ok.

The Complete University Guide is useful as you can click on the university and look at the courses. I have to say some on it are a bit ? Very few courses and not really art powerhouses!

Everyone will have different ideas. If her arts A levels are traditional subjects like history, english lit, French etc then that is a good start for many careers and may help her get into a good university. Look at the universities attended of new joiners to companies where she may want to work when she graduates to see where people go - look at the younger people only and on their linkedin profiles as that will show what happens now not in the past.

Eg lawyers can do that (my field) and this is a good list whether for law or anything else which is high paid and hard to get into www.chambersstudent.co.uk/where-to-start/newsletter/law-firms-preferred-universities-2019

Dd is in year 12 and has only visited one uni (covid hasn’t helped), she has done a lot of research and done online tours but she’s so laid back and lazy that she hasn’t got around to doing any actual visits other than Oxford. She has applied for 5 unis, has 3 offers but she decided a few months ago that she was going to take a year out, she has since changed her mind and is trying to get a offer for this year but I think she maybe too late 😬.

DD’s first choice is based on her predicted grades, her other choices are based on her mock grades and the fact they are small uni’s (dd has Autism) which have catered halls, her choices are also close ish to home. So I have no idea what’s happening, if she’s going to uni this year or next, we are waiting to hear back from the uni she is trying to get a place for this year and waiting to see if Exeter offer a place for next year.

Sorry, dd is year 13.

I wasn't even planning to go to university at her age. Was similarly cripplingly shy (and was diagnosed as autistic as an adult).

In the 6th form, school helped with suggested courses and universities that offered those courses. We had a whole careers room with all the up to date university prospectuses in but I guess they're all online these days. Once I'd picked out a few I liked the sound of, I went to open days and that either ruled them in or out.

Ultimately I ended up applying to and going to Cambridge, which wasn't encouraged by the school and I hadn't been on an open day but once I decided I was interested, I'd arranged my own visit with my Dad.

When I got to the college I applied to, it just felt right. So I guess my process was lots of research, lots of experiential visits and then gut feel/ intuition on those foundations.

I didn't know anyone else who went there and found my people. Had far better friends from university than I ever made at school.

Going with a friend is a risky strategy. The easiest time to make new friends at uni is in the first few weeks. That’s also the time when it’s easiest to cling to the people you know. If she goes with a friend who then spreads their own wings a term in, she will be worse off than if she went alone to start with

This 100%. DD ended up at Uni with someone she knew from school - but DD wanted to start afresh and has basically done everything she possibly can to avoid this person ever since!

Done this twice- here’s my approach
Focus on subject / area of study
Start with predicted grades and use WhatUni to assess which places are achievable, no point wasting time on considering Unis that they won’t get into!
Consider geography: does the student want to be able to get back and forth from home easily or not bothered? If you think “oblyb3 hours from home” or whatever that will further limit the list
Consider City or campus: are they likely to want all amenities in one place (campus) or prefer getting out and about in a bigger city context?
Drill down on course content. Does it offer what the student wants to focus on? Is study abroad, sandwich year an option (if important to the student)
Consider employability stats
Consider available accommodation

Plan to visit about 4-6 places on your long shortlist just to get a feel, test travel arrangements etc. prob at the end of Y12 is a good time to start this process as by then thoughts about area of study and likely grade ranges will have crystallised

Ds1 did this in year 11 too. I don't think it is too early to start thinking ahead. Ds2 is year 11, he will start looking into this over summer when he will have a lot of free time.

Ds1 knew exactly what he wanted to do so googled top universities for computer science. Then drew a 3 hour travel radius from our house and started a spreadsheet of unis. He then looked at pure computer science but also computer science with maths etc and all the permutations.

Grades will rule in and rule out courses too. As a guide you can look at GCSE grade progression to A level but an individual can decide to work at their studies and achieve higher. But historically this is what students achieved. Page 7 www.cambridgeassessment.org.uk/Images/560531-progression-from-gcse-to-a-level-2017.pdf

Then he went on YouTube and watched students talk about their unis, watched room tours and a day in the life so he could get a feel for a place watching them walk from halls to lectures or the library etc. He did choose a city, a campus and collegiate. We unfortunately had lockdown but definitely plan to go to some of the places and walk around.

There can be huge differences in cost of accommodation which may or may not be a factor to consider. She could also look at universities she could commute to if she feels moving out would be too much for her.

@Exhausteddog

Some of the advice you are getting is good but some of it not remotely helpful for Art and related subjects where a portfolio is needed. Often A level grades are low and only 2 needed. It’s the portfolio that really matters! So you need to look at linked Foundation and Degree universities or take the Foundation locally. This gives DD time to mature and investigate universities whilst preparing the portfolio required for the course.

Just looking at where lawyers go won’t be helpful. Looking at outcomes for students, arty type universities and location might be better. She might change her mind on the foundation year too. The first term might suggest a completely different area of art. My DD changed at the last minute at school! If you start looking you can try and narrow it down but it can be quite fluid as they discover new ideas and mediums.

Does she want a campus or city university? I had a strong preference for campus. I chose to rule out all unis which meant I'd have to live at home. Next I chose the best ranked university for subject. I was doing a humanities subject and a more prestigious uni was better for the CV as the subject wasn't great. Next visited the shortlist and got a feeling for my top 3. I wouldn't chose it base on who else you know is going as you are unlikely to stay together that much.

Are you on WIWIKAU? There's been a few year 11 parents asking about A levels and uni courses recently.

The commonest cause of first year drop outs is students choosing the wrong course.
So, try to drill down into the course content. If they focus on, say, medieval art while she hates that and prefers 20th century, take that as a warning sign.
Look up the academics - what are their interests?
Look at entry requirements. Is she likely to meet them? How can you maximise her chances, eg school subject choices.
It's early days for your DD, OP, but it's never too early to start doing basic research.

Find art courses have quite wide subject content. School subject choice should be Art. Possibly another Arts based A level if she likes hard work. Never wasted though! Often 2 A levels are enough but a third essay type one is advantageous. There is always some writing involved!

my dc's looked at the league tables for the courses they wanted to do, the content of the courses too and the types of clubs in the towns that were on the shortlist.

Cost of living in any particular town (outside of London) wasn't something I really considered before DD ended up somewhere known for great value for private rentals - she's paying 30% less per month than her friends studying in more expensive places like Bristol, Brighton and Oxford. That maintenance loan goes a lot further in some places than others.