Choosing a chemistry degree / university

[persephone19]

DS1 is in y12, A levels in physics chemistry and maths at a state 6th form having gained a good set of GCSEs from the fabled 'bog standard comp'. He is set on a chemistry degree.
From a search on here I've established he needs to:
Ideally apply for a course with a sandwich year in industry
Be prepared to do a Phd/DPhil thereafter
Go for a generic chemistry degree from a good university
Make sure the course gives him membership to the Royal Society of Chemistry

Is there anything else he should consider regarding the courses before considering which universities he wants to visit and then apply to? (Obviously he needs to consider what type of university and location etc). The threads I've found on here are from a few years back.

Has anyone been through the chemistry degree application process recently with their DC?

Thank you!

Opinions on sandwich years vary...summer internships may be more appropriate. It's not clear how many employers really want someone for a whole year who's only done a couple of years of undergrad work. (DH and I are chemists in different fields)

I’d look at what employment the students go into
Earning levels
Drop out rate
% class of degrees
And any variation in teaching style - what would he enjoy?

All applies to any degree, obviously

Thanks both. That's interesting about sandwich years vs summer internship. I'll bear that in mind.
He seems quite open to any sort of employment thereafter depending on which bits of the degree he most enjoys which is good I think.

DS about to go this September chosen not to go the sandwich route.

@Neurodiversitydoctor

DS about to go this September chosen not to go the sandwich route.

What was his rationale, I'm interested in the different opinions?

I have to say the school/DS have handled everything will ask him when he gets up.

I’d also look at what the practical side of the course looks like, good lab facilities etc. and what the research of the department is like since this will define a lot of the content especially in later years, and also the options for in-house lab placement etc.

I’d also like to recommend Southampton, I had a great time studying there, and have stayed well connected to the chemistry department.

Ass someone who did a year industrial placement during a chemistry degree and has subsequently recruited and supervised chemistry students in industry for year placements I am in favour of the full year. That way the student is with the business long enough to really make a mark and add value to the department they are working in. However I have not been in this supervising / recruiting role for over 10 years now and I can't speak for the current employment market as a whole. I'd be asking where the placement students typically work, what help the dept gives in finding the placement and supporting the students through the placement period.

Agree with PP that placements of several months can be better than a sandwich year. I did 3-4 lab placements of varying lengths which really helped me develop my skills (which I no longer use as it happens). I think that’s likely to be better than one extended placement.

@Neurodiversitydoctor

I have to say the school/DS have handled everything will ask him when he gets up.

Thanks

@Policyschmolicy

Agree with PP that placements of several months can be better than a sandwich year. I did 3-4 lab placements of varying lengths which really helped me develop my skills (which I no longer use as it happens). I think that’s likely to be better than one extended placement.

Really interesting thanks. Are those sort of placements tricky to get?

@ExtremelyDetermined

Ass someone who did a year industrial placement during a chemistry degree and has subsequently recruited and supervised chemistry students in industry for year placements I am in favour of the full year. That way the student is with the business long enough to really make a mark and add value to the department they are working in. However I have not been in this supervising / recruiting role for over 10 years now and I can't speak for the current employment market as a whole. I'd be asking where the placement students typically work, what help the dept gives in finding the placement and supporting the students through the placement period.

Yes I think university support for finding year long placements or indeed shorter internships sounds important.

Thank you all. Our list of questions is getting more focussed.

@Policyschmolicy

I’d also look at what the practical side of the course looks like, good lab facilities etc. and what the research of the department is like since this will define a lot of the content especially in later years, and also the options for in-house lab placement etc.

I’d also like to recommend Southampton, I had a great time studying there, and have stayed well connected to the chemistry department.

I have a couple of friends whose children have been very happy at Southampton and certainly it works for us geographically (although I suspect DS might wish to be further away )

Well, it’s quite a long time ago now, but there was quite a lot of support for all of the placements that were mandatory, and a lesser degree of support for finding e.g. work in research labs over summer holidays, but that was certainly there at the time for students who were motivated, and is probably easier now with centrally funded placement schemes etc. it meant that by the time I started a PhD I had had quite varied experience of different types of chemistry in groups with different working dynamics

I'd grill any Uni on the actual details of how easy it is to get year in industry places. It can be very competitive.

A relative did biochemistry at Bristol with a year in industry- deliberately chosen for that reason. But there weren’t enough placements to go round and some students lost out, including my relative. It was frustrating and a bit of a waste of time.

@Snowiscold

A relative did biochemistry at Bristol with a year in industry- deliberately chosen for that reason. But there weren’t enough placements to go round and some students lost out, including my relative. It was frustrating and a bit of a waste of time.

Gosh. Sounds frustrating. Did they just have to skip the year?

@LessTime

I'd grill any Uni on the actual details of how easy it is to get year in industry places. It can be very competitive.

Good advice thank you

@Policyschmolicy

Well, it’s quite a long time ago now, but there was quite a lot of support for all of the placements that were mandatory, and a lesser degree of support for finding e.g. work in research labs over summer holidays, but that was certainly there at the time for students who were motivated, and is probably easier now with centrally funded placement schemes etc. it meant that by the time I started a PhD I had had quite varied experience of different types of chemistry in groups with different working dynamics

Luckily my son does seem quite self motivated but it's a good caveat

These days, now that degree apprenticeships are up and running, a year out in industry might be more difficult to acquire. I would look closely at how many students do actually get these. Is it truly realistic?

A friend with a PhD in his branch of chemistry was sponsored by his employer. Other chemistry grads we know didn’t bother. All get great jobs and are happy in their roles. Each employer views their work and employees differently and I would get the best degree possible from the best university. Does Oxford offer a year out for example?

@TizerorFizz

These days, now that degree apprenticeships are up and running, a year out in industry might be more difficult to acquire. I would look closely at how many students do actually get these. Is it truly realistic?

A friend with a PhD in his branch of chemistry was sponsored by his employer. Other chemistry grads we know didn’t bother. All get great jobs and are happy in their roles. Each employer views their work and employees differently and I would get the best degree possible from the best university. Does Oxford offer a year out for example?

It never used to. Everyone did a 4 year MChem course.

My brother went to Nottingham Trent and found it an excellent course. He came out with an MChem. He has an excellent career in organic chemistry, working in drug development. He's very well paid.

No 4 year MChem years ago. Or MEng etc. you just did 3 years. Then specialised. However most chemists don’t go and get a PhD do they? Or everyone would have one.

@TizerorFizz

No 4 year MChem years ago. Or MEng etc. you just did 3 years. Then specialised. However most chemists don’t go and get a PhD do they? Or everyone would have one.

Before the MChem was a thing, oxford’s chemistry degrees were unusual in being 4 years as standard, with the 4th year being research based. They got (earned!) MAs, I think. That was the case 40 years ago and I believe before that.

As to how many chemists do PhDs - it’s a minority, a subset of those getting firsts and high 2:1s (maybe not many of those nowadays as there are more firsts). Worthwhile research projects should all be funded, either by the research council or industry.

I think about half of my cohort went on to study for a PhD, numbers are generally high. I wouldn’t say it’s the minority tbh.