Moving to state sixth form the get into Oxbridge

[shreddies]

My cousin is planning to move her dds from private to state school for sixth form because she feels it will give them a better chance of getting into Oxbridge. She and her husband both went and this is very important to them.

One of the schools she is looking at has a pretty good sixth form but is a big mixed comprehensive with poor gcse results. It is on Bristol's list of aspiring schools where contextual offers are made, I assume Oxford and Cambridge use the same/similar data.

www.bristol.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/entry-requirements-qualifications/contextual-offers/

Leaving aside what I personally think of this, is this likely to be successful?

I can't imagine universities have time to dig down and spot that the high gcse grades come from an expensive private school, so I suspect they will be taken at face value?

It goes on postcode not just which school they went to. So unless she is planning to move house too it sounds pointless. And going to a worse school isn't going to help her get the grades she needs to get in. Stop trying to play the system and just focus on getting the grades she needs.

[quote beeswain]@shreddiesIt is commonly misunderstood, Oxford and Cambridge do not give contextual offers - their offers are standard wherever an applicant went to school.
Contextual factors are taken into account as part of the decision of whether or not to interview an applicant - GCSE's are looked at as one indicator, and compared to other results at the school in which they were taken, along with entrance test score and references. So moving to a state school for 6th form will give no advantage whatsoever. Admissions tutors are not daft![/quote]
This was my impression too.

I asked a friend who is an Oxford Professor, and who interviews students every year for admissions. She said "It your kid wants to get a place at Oxbridge, you need to get them in front of an A level teacher who can teach that subject competently". She said that the struggle for some kids from disadvantaged backgrounds is that it's harder to get hold of a really good teacher for a subject like further maths, and that that is where the problem arises. If they need further maths to get in, and there is no good further maths teacher at their school, then they are stuck.

She said it's nothing to do with the social background of the school or the child, it's purely to do with whether the kid has the subject knowledge to cope with the course.

She was talking about STEM subjects.

The thing with contextual is they also look at level of parental education and parental occupation, it's not just the school.

So, moving in and of itself isn't likely to provide then with a contextual offer

It's putrid. Heaven forbid a genuinely deprived student gets in, eh? Nope, let's keep Oxbridge for those who went private for at least part of their education and whose parents went there. Possibly worse even than those who rent houses in the catchment of good state schools and promptly move out when they've got the kids in. Dicks.

@shreddies tell her to go for it. It won't work (for reasons already stated). But will ensure their child understands what privilege is, and hopefully may develop a social conscience, unlike the parents.

My son had his engineering interview today. 75% of people applying to Cambridge get an interview. You only don't get one if you really have no hope at all of getting in.

I feel sorry for these children: they must feel terrible that their parents are so pessimistic about their chances of winning a place through their own merits.

@mellicauli

My son had his engineering interview today. 75% of people applying to Cambridge get an interview. You only don't get one if you really have no hope at all of getting in.

I feel sorry for these children: they must feel terrible that their parents are so pessimistic about their chances of winning a place through their own merits.

But that is not true for all subjects. In mine we only interview about 30% and that means the cut off excludes some very able students who may well have done very well had they had an interview.

@shreddies

My cousin is planning to move her dds from private to state school for sixth form because she feels it will give them a better chance of getting into Oxbridge. She and her husband both went and this is very important to them.

One of the schools she is looking at has a pretty good sixth form but is a big mixed comprehensive with poor gcse results. It is on Bristol's list of aspiring schools where contextual offers are made, I assume Oxford and Cambridge use the same/similar data.

www.bristol.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/entry-requirements-qualifications/contextual-offers/

Leaving aside what I personally think of this, is this likely to be successful?

I can't imagine universities have time to dig down and spot that the high gcse grades come from an expensive private school, so I suspect they will be taken at face value?

I’ve not read the full thread, sorry not much time this evening; but they will need to put the GCSE school on the application form, and we get all the contextual data for each school, not just the sixth form, and the results are evaluated accordingly.

Moving schools doesn’t confer any particular advantage or disadvantage, as the application will look at all the relevant contexts anyway. We get a lot of contextual data about where the applicant lives and all their schools and so on, and it all goes into the mix.

[quote mumsneedwine]@shreddies tell her to go for it. It won't work (for reasons already stated). But will ensure their child understands what privilege is, and hopefully may develop a social conscience, unlike the parents. [/quote]
That is a potential silver lining I agree

They might find they don't get into the sixth form.

I went to a very good sixth form college, at one point it was the best state sixth form in the country.

Lots of parents used to try and get their private school educated kids in for 2 free years. The sixth form clamped down on it and wouldn't offer a place unless they wanted to study a subject not offered at their current school. Even then at the interview they were quizzed about why that subject was so important to them.

@anoxfordtutor I did get this from the Cambridge website. I guess it may vary from course to course:

"Everyone with a realistic chance of being offered a place will be offered an interview" www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/applying

The majority of applicants are invited to attend an interview. In previous years, this has been around 75 per cent of Home applicants overall (though this varies between courses).
www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/applying/interviews#:~:text=The%20majority%20of%20applicants%20are,though%20this%20varies%20between%20courses)

Universities still look at where the child was educated before sixth form and take that into account (as they should).

@mellicauli that may well be the case at Cambridge, I couldn't comment, but it isn't for my subject at Oxford. For my subject the number of applicants per place is so high that we have to focus the interviews on a smaller cohort of applicants (after an entrance test). It does mean that getting an interview is quite an achievement in itself. Not all subjects are in this position, the interview rate varies from subject to subject.

@hardtobelieve

It could backfire as the State sector might be less generous in their estimated grades.

And they'll also suffer from bigger classes and less individualised teaching.

I've been looking into this as I realised I've accidentally sent to sixth form college in a very disadvantaged area. Different universities have different criteria som some are looking at the GCSE school, home postcode and and sixth form school. Others only seem to look at the sixth form.

I was I intrigued to see DD could potentially get in well respected university on a contextual offer (she's really not a high flyer academically) It wouldn't be the right university for her, so it's not something she'll peruse, but I realised I could have made a very "clever" decision pointing her towards the sixth from college she's currently attending. I think if I I was desperate for her attend to Oxbridge I'd be moving house into a deprived area in dedication to my DCs education. I'm just not that dedicated though, so will stay in my leafy suburb

[quote anoxfordtutor]@mellicauli that may well be the case at Cambridge, I couldn't comment, but it isn't for my subject at Oxford. For my subject the number of applicants per place is so high that we have to focus the interviews on a smaller cohort of applicants (after an entrance test). It does mean that getting an interview is quite an achievement in itself. Not all subjects are in this position, the interview rate varies from subject to subject.[/quote]
Cambridge interviews a much higher proportion of applicants than Oxford. It’s thought to be one of the reasons there is a (slightly) better state/private ratio at Cambridge,

As pps have said, Cambridge looks at an applicants GCSE results compared to their cohort at the school where they sat their GCSEs so will not somehow “miss” that a student has moved schools. Comparison against their peers is only one factor among many though - overall grades and interview performance, including performance in any written tests - will be the most important thing. If they’re happy at their existing school and there’s no other reason to move them it seems like a sledgehammer to crack a nut type move.

They also need to bear in mind that they will get far less input/support and help from a state school in terms of Oxbridge prep , although I am sure they think they can do that bit. I imagine they will spend two years moaning about the school's provision, class sizes and teaching contact time.

Beware the Bristol list. It's far more extensive than any other list. It also keeps changing. DS's school was on it for years and was taken off this year. I am guessing because they started getting more students into RG unis - the school's HE progression is a big Bristol
measure.

I agree with a PP that this all doesn't suggest they have much faith in their DCs' innate ability. It also sounds very spoilt and entitled. This idea that somehow state school pupils form relatively deprived backgrounds are advantaged and that others might want to game the system to buy into that 'advantage' is frankly laughable. And insulting to the comprehensively educated DCs (especially those who are from genuinely disadvantaged backgrounds) who gain places on merit against many many odds.

Contextual offers are based on where GCSEs are taken! Dd had one because her secondary was in special measures - she state boarded at an excellent school for 6th form

is this likely to be successful?

Of course, the main thing is whether your cousin's DD is clever enough to get the grades, and engaged enough to do well in any pre-assessments and the interview. Regardless of school, the likeliest outcome for any oxbridge applicant is that they'll be going somewhere else.

Some people have no shame.

It is an increasingly popular trend in my local area for DC from the independent sector to move to the local state sixth form college for A Levels. The Oxbridge prep at the sixth form college is very good (and much publicised) and has around 60 or so successful Oxbridge entrants each year.
I don't know whether there is a lower bar for Oxbridge admissions test results for those at a state sixth form regardless of where they were educated beforehand but some parents seem to think this to the case.

How times have changed... When I was a teenager a friend moved from our average state grammar (in a county where grammars/upper schools are the default, but not a particularly high achieving school, Oxbridge offers were v rare) post-GCSE to a very fancy boarding school for 6th form so she could get coached to get into Oxbridge.

That said, it might be a great life experience for your niece to go to a state 6th form, will widen her outlook on the world etc so I'd let them crack on.

How times have changed...
It's been the case in the past that while the percentage of privately educated kids up to gcse is about 7%, it goes up to ~14% for sixth form. Has that changed much?

What a dick move! They just need to accept that their DD is not bright enough for Oxbridge.

That's a shitty move