Feedback on this A Level Mix

[FredaFedUpBigTime]

DC16 is a good all rounder and it’s proving hard to pick A Levels.

However, he’s settled on Maths, Further Maths, Chemistry and Philosophy. He is predicted 9’s in these.

He says he thinks he wants to do Chemistry at Uni. He’s interested in Law, but doesn’t want to do a law degree, but may do the conversion afterwards.

With this in mind, and perhaps a bit of mind changing later on, do you think that is a good mix for a top Uni to study law at degree level?

Lots of schools don’t teach it like that at all. All A levels taken at the same time.

And I don't think they consider maths+fm as 'one subject' - that would mean they thought maths was less than a full subject, when many students find it very hard.
It's more, I think, that kids with the aptitude to do FM are likely to be able to deal with it in addition to 3 other subjects. Whether or not they have that aptitude isn't always clear based on GCSEs because of the 'step up', so it's probably rarely a good idea to do fm other than as a fourth initially.

All A levels taken at the same time.

Yes indeed. But at our school Maths is taught in year 12 and Further Maths in year 13, with both examined at the end of year 13.

And yes, Further Maths is typically only chosen by those with an aptitude for Maths.

Yes, I need to ask more Q's about the |FM.

I have also been told by some 6th formers that they found A-level maths quite easy in year 12 as they had done Admaths in year 11, which my son is doing, and it is basically just a repeat of this.

Sorry, epic name fail. We have covid in our house and I name changed.

Epic fail, an F in A Level covert ops.

I am a lawyer and 2 of my children are in London and 2 more are law students (post grad), not that that makes me an expert. I agree with Tizer above. That combination is fine for law Maths, Further Maths, Chemistry and Philosophy particularly as it has two traditional facilitation subjects - maths and chemistry.

I did English literature, History and German A levels. I read law as I wanted to get on with qualifying as young as I could and avoid the law conversion year (and I did a 3 not 4 year degree in that case too).

However my daughters did a different degree first and then the law conversion year and then the other law post grad year LPC which for your son (if he wants to be a solicitor) will be the new SQE system, the first exams for which just happened last month.

The new system for those like your son who might go to Oxbridge and probably will be going to a bigger law firm, will be similar to the current. Apply to law firms during his degree (not after ideally), then do a law conversion PGDL course for 2 x 15 week terms (not compulsory under the new system but required by the bigger firms for those without a law degree). Then SQE1 exam preparation and exam and then a course a bit like the current LPC course (which again will not be compulsory under the new system but he is likely to do if sponsored by a law firm) and then SQE2 preparation and then SQE2 exams. Then 2 years training (paid) in a law firm. (Under the new system this can be at 4 firms but those going to the better firms will stick with one firm). Then he would be qualified.

So if you do it my way - LLB, post grad year, 2 years training that is 6 years until qualified (and 4 years until paid as you are paid during the training contract at the law firm).

If you do a 4 year degree which is not law, then the 2 post grad years then it is 8 years until you qualify and 6 years from leaving school until you are paid.

I expect I was unusual in wanting to get exams done and start real life and earning and many students want as long as possible as students and everyone is different. The other issue for some is money. If you aren't sponsored through post grad law it will be cheaper in terms of post grad debt if you do a law degree first and you can only obtain one masters loan under the current student loan system so for some without a law firm sponsoring them or a parent they are making decisions about length of courses and routes to qualify based on financial issues.

you can only obtain one masters loan under the current student loan system

Just to clarify this point as it can be confusing - the separate Masters loan is only needed for separate postgrad masters degrees. Undergrad integrated masters such as the Oxford chemistry MChem are just a standard 4 year undergrad loan.

Good point and I hoping those doing an LLB will be offered LLB including SQE training and SQE1 exam within a 3 year LLB under the new law qualification system although not sure that will happen. Then law students would just need a masters student loan for their year after that for SQE2 course and exams.

Also there have always been and continue to be commercial loans available for all post graduate law courses.

I went to Cambridge (20 years ago) with the intention of doing chemistry via natsci. I wanted to do maths, further maths, chemistry and eng lit, but (a) my school didn’t end up doing further maths, and (b) I was advised for natsci it was better to have two sciences and one maths rather than one science and two maths.

So I did maths, physics, chemistry and eng lit. And got in to do natsci and ended up specialising in a totally different science actually.

My reflections would be:
I wish I had been able to do further maths. It was a bit of a nightmare without it tbh. We had maths lectures as well as part of natsci, and in the first lecture they said “don’t worry if you haven’t done further maths, we’ll be covering that over the next few weeks to get you up to speed”. It was at that point that I went from a 95%+ person in maths to a 40% what-the-hell-is-happening person. Totally hit my maths glass ceiling and couldn’t keep up. So I wish I had done further maths. But I don’t know if I would have been successful applying for natsci with only one science.

And chemistry very much turned into hard maths at uni. It did feel quite different to at a level. Luckily I fell for a different science through the natsci system and have never looked back.

And I also did eng lit. I have never regretted this - I loved having a subject which grounded me and fed the non-sciencey side. It was so enjoyable and actually, the essay writing skills I honed here were more of use in my future scientific career than I could possibly have expected.

I think for those courses which involve hard maths where a majority of students will have done FM, then it may be advisable for any who don't to self-study the most relevant aspects in the summer before starting uni.

I'd expect chemistry degrees at many good unis would have different maths tracks depending on what maths you'd done at A level - there are decent courses where no more than gcse is required. Back in the day my degree had this - easy maths, for those with none or not very good grades, hard for those with good grades/double maths. We all had to do stats as well.

Looks good. I'd keep philosophy in if the law conversion course is an option for later.

@ErrolTheDragon

I think for those courses which involve hard maths where a majority of students will have done FM, then it may be advisable for any who don't to self-study the most relevant aspects in the summer before starting uni.

I'd expect chemistry degrees at many good unis would have different maths tracks depending on what maths you'd done at A level - there are decent courses where no more than gcse is required. Back in the day my degree had this - easy maths, for those with none or not very good grades, hard for those with good grades/double maths. We all had to do stats as well.

Ours did have different maths tracks, but they depended not on what you had already done (eg how many maths a levels) but on what you were planning to study (physical sciences natsci had quite intensive harder maths, biological sciences natsci had easier maths with more stats.). I think I’d have been fine with the “biological” maths and could really have used the stats. But if you were doing a particular combination of natsci subjects you had to do the harder maths option.

Might have changed now, though. And I’m sure it’s different elsewhere. But v much worth checking.