4 A levels Cambridge

[SusannaRowan]

DD is at the moment taking 4 A levels, she wants to apply for Cambridge (history). Head of sixth form wants her to drop one, as if she sits 4, then Cambridge will give her an offer based on 4. Is this true? Her fourth A level is a subject she loves and really isn't ready to give up, but Head considers it not a suitable subject for Cambridge, so it is the one she will have to drop if she has to drop an A level.
I can't see anything online that says Cambridge will offer on 4?

@mynameiscalypso
Was that Oxford or Cambridge?

@Titchy
Yes, she has to take the AS level before the A-level anyway at her school.

@Lucia574
Yes, she's in yr12

So, the answer seems to be to email admissions, although she hasn't a clue which particular college she's interested in yet at Cambridge (and no, she's not interested in Oxford, as it's a particular course that she wants). Thank you for your replies.

Cambridge

My dc offered 4 A levels (not Oxbridge though) and most offers were based on 3 A levels.

A couple offers specified the requirement for minimum grades for certain subjects (eg Maths). This was not 'snobbery' but to ensure that students have the necessary maths skills.

I think a lot of students offer 4 A levels when applying at Oxford/Cambridge.

My brother is at Cambridge he had an offer for three

A *
A *
A

Dd was in the same situation in year 12, ended up taking 3 A levels in hope to get into Oxford. She got mainly 9’s in GCSE and expected A levels to just be a slight step up. She’s in her last year of A level and won’t be going to Oxford or Exeter (her 2nd choice), she has found A level a huge step up from GCSE and is struggling with maths, she’s now predicted AAB but realistically AAC and is now regretting her choices. She’s taking a year out and hasn’t put an application in for Oxford, she’s has applied for Exeter and to defer for a year but it’s unlikely she will be offered a place.

Schools advice was for her not to take 4 A levels and to concentrate on getting A’s in 3.

It is a bit of a pain that the details may vary by college for a given course. It can be a bit overwhelming!
You/your DD have hopefully found the overall department page

www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/history

There's a list of the colleges with links which should include the contact details for the admissions tutor(s) as a starting point. It's part of their job to advise potential students.

www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/colleges/college-contacts%C2%A0

As she doesn't know which college she might want to apply to (normal at this stage) then may be best to pick two or three possibles. There's a few ways to cut down the list. Obviously not the postgrad/mature only ; then yea or nay on women's (newnham & Murray edwards) ; location (central, slightly further out, 'hill' (churchill, Fitz, ME) and further (girton, homerton); and there is an applications statistics with an interactive graph generator which allows, among other things, checking the number of applications and offers for a subject - she can see from this by clicking on the bars how many history students each college has. (Don't overanalyse though- the 'pooling' system evens out applications and offers)

www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/apply/statistics

@Lovemusic33

I'm sorry your daughter is regretting her choices. Tbh she'll probably benefit hugely from a year out, it's something that I wish DD would do as they've missed out on so many growing experiences due to the pandemic. DD got an A* for higher maths GCSE and intended to take it at A level, but her school put her in for an additional higher maths qualification which didn't go as well and made her realise that A level maths was going to be a huge step up. We were cross about her being pushed into it (with very little teaching)at the time, but in retrospect she had a lucky escape with A level.
She has found A levels to be a huge step up anyway, in part due to the appalling teaching and support they've had because of the pandemic.

@ErrolTheDragon

Thank you, that's all very helpful.
She has read quite a bit about the course, as it's the course she is interested in, rather than Cambridge itself.

We were talking about the 4 or 3 A levels thing in the car this morning. She did acknowledge the fact that she took a ridiculous amount of GCSEs, and was so stressed about it. And quite frankly why put herself through that again. Plus her fourth subject has crazy high grade boundaries, which she will stress herself chasing.

I think it’s better to do 3 A levels really well than 4 not so well; as attention will by necessity be diverted. Especially as for Oxbridge much is about the extra curriculars around your chosen subject and further study. Maybe your DD could do her EPQ on the area if interested instead. DD has applied to Oxford. She has offers in already from her other applications and Birmingham have contextualised her offer-if she gets an A in her EPQ they have reduced her offer to BBB from AAB, so is a great back up.

Some of the cannier boys at DS's school dropped the fourth subject to improve their chances of admission and it worked. It depends on your DC's priorities really; if they love learning and their subjects they may prefer to stick with the four but if Oxford is the main goal then consider sacrificing a subject if there is concern.

Maybe your DD could do her EPQ on the area if interested instead.

She is doing her EPQ on the subject that she wants to study at uni. It's the practical side of her fourth subject that she will miss, not the written side of it. Although have just read that an EPQ doesn't have to be essay based 🤔 hmm...

The 'crazy high grade boundaries' plus poor teaching does suggest she perhaps should drop that fourth subject for her own sake.
My DD dropped her 4th A level after AS to concentrate on getting high grades in the other three (it was a subject with a large project element in yr 13). She did a very relevant EPQ, doing most of the work over the summer after AS. (She did pre-reform A Levels).

Incidentally, I believe part of the rationale behind giving offers based on four if they apply on the basis of four is to deter anyone making their application look more competitive with an apparent demonstration of breadth/ dealing with higher workload but then dropping one once they've got an offer. Which is fair enough!

@SusannaRowan

Maybe your DD could do her EPQ on the area if interested instead.

She is doing her EPQ on the subject that she wants to study at uni. It's the practical side of her fourth subject that she will miss, not the written side of it. Although have just read that an EPQ doesn't have to be essay based 🤔 hmm...

Mine did an 'artefact' - designed and built a robot.

I don't know if your dd would be better off sticking with the subject-related one from the pov of applications. There's two aspects to stuff beyond 3 A levels from the application pov, I think - one is demonstrating the ability to deal with a high workload, the other is engagement with the subject.

I agree about asking admissions.

Just a thought - is this subject she might drop something she could pick up again at university? Eg., something like drama? Cambridge is quite good for societies and clubs that do various types of activity. That might also help her choose her college? Some will have more resources for certain activities than others, or more active societies.

Incidentally, I believe part of the rationale behind giving offers based on four if they apply on the basis of four is to deter anyone making their application look more competitive with an apparent demonstration of breadth/ dealing with higher workload but then dropping one once they've got an offer. Which is fair enough!

That's a bit canny! It wouldn't have occurred to DD, she's a bit of a straight arrow.

I don't want to post anything too outing. Not really sure the fourth subject is something that she could do as an extra curricular at uni either.

Just suggested the 4th subject EPQ to DD and apparently her school only allows them to do essay based EPQs. Her school is massively frustrating about a lot of things.

Incidentally, I believe part of the rationale behind giving offers based on four if they apply on the basis of four is to deter anyone making their application look more competitive with an apparent demonstration of breadth/ dealing with higher workload

My dc applied with 4 A levels (not Including Further Maths) and all her offers were based on just 3 A levels (with the only other requirement being a minimum grade in Maths). This was good for her as it wouldn't have mattered in which subjects she got the two A stars.

But yes, she did have a higher workload and bigger breadth of subjects.

Plus her fourth subject has crazy high grade boundaries

But the grade boundaries reflect the difficulty of each year's exam. So really not to worry about if she enjoys and is good at the subject.

The only exception would be a modern language where grade boundaries are inflated by native speakers

Some strange comments here...

My daughter ended up doing 5 A levels, one of which was FM. This was when some subjects were reformed and others not. Cambridge's offer for NatSci was AAAA in Maths, FM, Physics & Chemistry. They didn't mind which subjects were the A*s. They completely ignored her A level in English - had she missed her offer, she might have used that as leverage but she made it with Maths/Science as offered.

I still think better 3 A* than 4A”s though…

@MrsElijahMikaelson1

I still think better 3 A* than 4A”s though…

Definitely ime

You need to ask the admissions tutor of the college she's applying to about whether the offer might include the fourth A-level, but it sounds as if it is one that is not relevant to the course, in which case I'd be very surprised if it was included in the offer. After all, if someone said they were doing grade 8 piano, they wouldn't add that into the offer.

My Cambridge offer specified which subjects the grades needed to be in, and I told the teacher of my fourth subject that it was now my bottom priority. From then on, if I skipped an essay he didn't say anything. Provided she is able to prioritise doing sufficient work in the other subjects, there shouldn't be a problem continuing with four.

@Malbecfan wax this recent?

Things have changed a lot in past 2 years, so just checking

@MarleneDietrichsSmile, not very recent. She applied in 2016 and started in 2017. Her A levels in English & sciences were the reformed ones, Maths & FM legacy specifications.