Year abroad at Sciences Po?

[Delphigirl]

Hi my DS (politics 2nd yr) is considering where to apply for a year abroad next year. Sciences Po Paris caught his eye. Obv it is super prestigious, but does anyone know what it is like to attend for a single year? There aren’t halls of residences so it would be very much setting himself up in a flat Paris and then attending. He has only gcse French so would be doing English-taught courses. Will he mix with the French students or do they ignore the internationals? Any views gratefully received.

I did my 3rd year at Sciences-Po but this was 20+ years ago although I suspect it hasn't changed that much. However, all my courses were in French so quite different to your DS and that could be a fundamental difference. I attended lectures/seminars with French students along with a few internationals.

After an English university, it was brutal. Sciences-Po is VERY serious - no surprise given that (as you probably know) it's 2nd in the world for social sciences (after Harvard). I had to pass an entrance exam at my English university before I was able to apply. I then had to pass a further exam on arrival in Paris before I was admitted.

We had seminars Mon-Fri (and Sat mornings) that could be anytime between 8am and 10pm. There were mandatory. If you missed 3 seminars during the year (regardless of reason), you were out. You had to present to the group during 2 hour seminars and everyone was marked on oral participation (in addition to usual marking) so if you were presenting, it was usually a tough audience who gave you a real grilling as they fought for the limelight and those high scores. We had exams every 2nd Saturday afternoon.

The French students were incredibly serious and didn't interact with us international students unless it was in a seminar. I remember arriving at 8am one day to find out a seminar had been cancelled and one of my fellow students was pissed off because he'd lost his seat in the library. Everyone had briefcases and quite a few of the male students wore suits. By Christmas, I was also carrying a briefcase and wearing a suit jacket (and jaunty scarf) with my jeans as a compromise.

Socially, the only effort made with international students was to hold a champagne soiree just before Christmas (so 3-4 months after we'd arrived...it would have been useful to do this earlier!). I did get invited to a professor's apartment for drinks along with the rest of my mainly French seminar group. And they did also hold an amazing party on the top floor of Beaubourg for all of Sciences-Po. Fabulous experience!

Of course things may well have moved on, and I suspect will be very different if the course your DS likes is all in English. My experience was very much being slotted into business as usual with the native French students.

It was a tough year. I grew up a lot. It definitely changed me. It felt more like a business school and when I returned to the UK for my final year, I was pretty much done with studying and itching to get working instead.

I've worked in a number of French companies since I graduated, or with French people in global companies (including being Paris based for a while) and being a Sciences-Po alumni gets me a lot of kudos with the French. No-one else really cares though. I don't know if I'd get the same kudos as a non-French speaker though.

In summary, it's hard and competitive. As you'd expect. But I imagine doing it in your native language will make it less hard.

That is fantastic insight, thank you so much for taking the time to provide such a detailed view @HundredMilesAnHour.
I think it has changed a bit since your time as I understand a very significant % of undergrads are now internationals, and all (non exchange) undergrads are required to do their 3rd year in a university abroad. So it is more outward facing and half of the courses are in English. They also do a full orientation week for internationals with parties on boats on the Seine etc so that sounds a bit friendlier! But I’ll bet it is still just as rigorous.

It would be great to hear of anyone knows anyone who has done an exchange there recently.

And OMG to the briefcases and suits… that would NOT go down well with DS!

@Delphigirl That sounds a big improvement! But yes, I'm sure the standards are still high. And I hope it's still quite French as it would be sad if they've gone too far the other way. My experience that year really was fundamentally life defining for me (although I probably didn't realise at the time) and I won't change any of it (not even having to learn the French constitution off by heart lol)

No insight. DD is also considering a year abroad for another social science subject. Sciences Po is on list however they were warned about the expense of studying there (particularly accommodation but also socialising with other students).

Yes I think it is quite a rich crowd. There are also non-paris campuses - Reims has 1400 students in beautiful surroundings within striking distance of Paris which looks interesting (and much cheaper accommodation). Not quite the same as Paris though…

Aurrgh at learning the constitution by heart! It is now 40% international with 7 campuses around France so I suspect it would be very different in feel if you were to go back!!

He has only gcse French so would be doing English-taught courses.

Are there that many English taught courses available at undergraduate level?

Yes, it was super-expensive to live, even when I studied there years ago. In fact, I tried to pull out because of the expense and go somewhere cheaper in France but my uni wouldn't let me.

I found a chambre-de-bonne in the 16th. Basically an old servant's room with a sink in one corner. Shared toilet in the corridor. 6 floors of wooden stairs to climb. But it did have a tiny balcony with a view of the top part of the Eiffel Tower (that I was walking distance from). I showered at the swimming baths (bought a monthly pass). I slept on a borrowed camping mattress on the floor. Also had a (borrowed) hot plate and borrowed camping table and chair lol. Hardly luxe but I was happy. There were always friends staying on my floor. I became the queen of the one pot dinner dish.

It was worth it. Strolling through Saint-Germain on your way to class is pretty cool. Supermarket picnics on the grass in one of the parks or by the Seine. Getting caught in French demonstrations (they do love a protest!). Going home after a late seminar and the street being gridlocked by a man with a horse and cart giving away glasses of beaujolais to pedestrians (because "le beaujolais est arrive!"). The joys of French nightclubs with people watching themselves dance in front of mirrors , and dodgy Frenchmen who don't realise that English girls can drink them under the table (but thanks for the free drinks!)

Slightly off-topic trip from memory lane from me but basically my recommendation is that if you going to study at Sciences-Po, it has to be in Paris! Living in Paris is the trade-off for the hard work and high expectations.

DDs departments exchange is Paris campus only. Hence the warning about costs.

DH is a prof at sciences po and was there himself. My impression from him is that the cohort of students has changed quite a lot from when he was there about 20 years ago. It's much more international and there are courses in English as you say but even the French students are somewhat different I believe - the admissions system has changed so the undergraduates are not coming from classes preparatoires as he did, but rather straight from school. In that sense probably a bit more like UK uni students in preparation and attitude than in the past. They still have Saturday morning teaching though! I've been to his building a couple of times and did not spot any students in suits! We live very nearby and it is a lovely part of Paris. I would really encourage your son to take French classes while in Paris though if he decided to do it, such a waste not to.

@HundredMilesAnHour

Yes, it was super-expensive to live, even when I studied there years ago. In fact, I tried to pull out because of the expense and go somewhere cheaper in France but my uni wouldn't let me.

I found a chambre-de-bonne in the 16th. Basically an old servant's room with a sink in one corner. Shared toilet in the corridor. 6 floors of wooden stairs to climb. But it did have a tiny balcony with a view of the top part of the Eiffel Tower (that I was walking distance from). I showered at the swimming baths (bought a monthly pass). I slept on a borrowed camping mattress on the floor. Also had a (borrowed) hot plate and borrowed camping table and chair lol. Hardly luxe but I was happy. There were always friends staying on my floor. I became the queen of the one pot dinner dish.

It was worth it. Strolling through Saint-Germain on your way to class is pretty cool. Supermarket picnics on the grass in one of the parks or by the Seine. Getting caught in French demonstrations (they do love a protest!). Going home after a late seminar and the street being gridlocked by a man with a horse and cart giving away glasses of beaujolais to pedestrians (because "le beaujolais est arrive!"). The joys of French nightclubs with people watching themselves dance in front of mirrors , and dodgy Frenchmen who don't realise that English girls can drink them under the table (but thanks for the free drinks!)

Slightly off-topic trip from memory lane from me but basically my recommendation is that if you going to study at Sciences-Po, it has to be in Paris! Living in Paris is the trade-off for the hard work and high expectations.

I think you may be the coolest person on mumsnet

@kalidasa

DH is a prof at sciences po and was there himself. My impression from him is that the cohort of students has changed quite a lot from when he was there about 20 years ago. It's much more international and there are courses in English as you say but even the French students are somewhat different I believe - the admissions system has changed so the undergraduates are not coming from classes preparatoires as he did, but rather straight from school. In that sense probably a bit more like UK uni students in preparation and attitude than in the past. They still have Saturday morning teaching though! I've been to his building a couple of times and did not spot any students in suits! We live very nearby and it is a lovely part of Paris. I would really encourage your son to take French classes while in Paris though if he decided to do it, such a waste not to.

Oh fantastic! Yes he certainly would take classes in French (language) and would like to improve significantly. So tell me when is the artilleries building expected to open? It seems to be a bit delayed but would it be open for sept 2022? Does your DH feel that there are too many internationals now - is the essence of the place being diluted?

Lyon is an amazing city and far cheaper than Paris. I went to Sciences Po ther a few decades ago. Very snobby but great insight into French culture

I think you may be the coolest person on mumsnet

@Delphigirl You're too kind! That cheered me up as I'm stuck at home with long Covid remembering happier times because of this thread, thank you!

I'm very curious to hear what @kalidasa says her DH thinks about the changes in Sciences-Po. It does sound quite different now to what I experienced.

DD is a fairly recent Sciences Po grad, although from one of the regional campuses on the international programme - the expectation is that bachelor grads will do their masters in Paris (she has several friends doing exactly that now). In addition to the regular bachelor programme (only two years in France and one abroad) and the one-year exchange, there are also a lot of students doing a double degree (eg with University College or with Columbia), so no undergrad is there longer than 2 years.
Yes, it's hugely demanding and expects students to be self-starters who throw themselves into everything, as well as academically pretty competent. DD's experience (as someone who hadn't gone to school in the UK) was that British students were fairly disadvantaged by the specialism of the A-Level system, because the Sciences-Pi undergrad syllabus demands a fairly good grounding in social sciences plus maths plus aptitude at learning languages. If you stopped at GCSE maths I think you'd find the statistics and economics classes a bit tricky, whereas most European students will have a much broader basis of subjects up to 18.
The French-track students did tend to keep their distance from the international students who were studying in English. Thinking back to the one-year exchange students who studied with DD, they were fairly free to pick and choose courses as long as they got enough credits, whereas the regular undergrads had to follow a much stricter programme - including a mandatory sport course, an 'arty' course and a French course - in addition to the politics, economics, maths, history, sociology, intensive additional language, and law. Expect a lot of prep and homework for each class, each week. But ultimately it's a fab experience that DD treasured.

Thanks so much, that’s very helpful. It does sound like a LOT of very hard work for a year which ultimately does not count towards his degree. Question is whether he considers having Sciences po on his CV and a year in Paris is worth ithat huge effort compared to eg having George Washington University on his Cv and spending the year partying in DC and travelling around the US. But this is all super helpful, thank you!

My DDs boyfriend at the time when at university, went to a Grande Ecole (elite French university) for his year abroad for an engineering MEng degree. It was all taught in French.

There was an initiation ceremony and everyone there was very rich! It was also tiny like a school and few women! Yes they wore a uniform and that included white gloves and a hat! (But he’s been to Harrow so was used to uniforms). He sent DD the pictures! Amazing for the cv and the year counted as one of his 4. So he worked very very hard! My DDs year abroad also counted. Anyone is lucky if it’s just a free pass!

I think there's a Sciences Po online open day sometime this month. I know DD has registered for it.
I have a student who should have gone to SP for his year out in the middle of Covid but it's been pushed back and he's leaving imminently. I'll update when I hear more about how he's doing if you like. He's Italian, studying political science/international relations here.

It might be worth him speaking to his tutor - he/she might be able to answer his questions. If they can't it might be worth him asking if they can put him in touch with anyone whose been or is presently there now.

DD is doing a year abroad at present. Her tutor was very much on the ball and clearly had a lot of contact with the uni abroad, dealing with potential problems that DD hadn't even thought of.

Has he applied to any other unis? If so, might be worth hanging on before making a final decision and obviously do his research into both.

DD actually had an offer from Sciences Po, but chose another uni as it was better for her course (and to be honest it's a beautiful town so I think that came into it). The uni arranged for a German student to meet her at the airport, who invited her for a couple of meals the first week. She didn't speak a word of German but uni were able to offer a language and integration course a month before. This helped her a bit, and she's joined a uni run club - it's in German but she gets the basics and it's a good way of getting to know German students. So it's worth your DS checking out with Sciences Po about things like this - again DD was in touch with someone from the uni she's gone to beforehand, which really helped.

For those who went to SP quite a long time ago - I think it's been making huge efforts in the last 10-15 years to show that it's changed and become less small-mindedly French. That doesn't mean lower standards in any way, more that the emphasis is more on academic rigour than external fripperies. DD certainly experienced no suits among students, no briefcases, no initiation ceremonies. There was a fairly wild 'freshers week' that involved several parties, and despite the uni's claim to (want to) attract the best students from around the world, with scholarships galore etc etc, the place was as revoltingly middle class as any other elite university.
I do recall now that the exchange student who lived in DD's house seemed to have more time on his hands than the regular students - partly I think because he had to do fewer courses, but also because he just didn't join a lot of clubs and social activities. What a waste! The year is as good as you make it.
BTW I think they do run a 'buddy' system with a 2nd year looking after a 1st year or exchange student, but not sure if that scheme operates at every campus.

Does it have to be Paris? I went to Sciences Po in Grenoble and it was honestly the best year of my life.
It was 20 years ago now and part of Erasmus scheme so I don’t know what it’s like now. I was doing a degree in French and Politics so my French was already good. I studied the same courses as the French students with additional French language classes pitched at my level. In total about 12 hours a week. Took exams in French like the local students. I went to a top UK university so academically it was the same standard (just in French!)

We were a group of about 40 Erasmus students from all over Europe. They had a 3 week long series of nights out right at the start so we could meet people and get to know the city. Assigned a French student buddy as well.

It was easy to socialise and make French friends or stick to the international group if you wanted to. The opportunity to immerse yourself in the language, culture, skiing, travel, is something I will always treasure. I made friends for life from all over and the life skills gained can’t compare to what you experience from the standard 3 years in the UK.

@Snoopsnoggysnog SciencesPo Grenoble calls itself that, but I don't think it's an intrinsic part of the Sciences Po. It's certainly not one of the seven regional campuses (from memory that's Paris, Reims, Le Havre, Dijon, Menton, Nancy, Poitiers). Maybe it has some sort of associate status?

[quote RuleOfCat]@Snoopsnoggysnog SciencesPo Grenoble calls itself that, but I don't think it's an intrinsic part of the Sciences Po. It's certainly not one of the seven regional campuses (from memory that's Paris, Reims, Le Havre, Dijon, Menton, Nancy, Poitiers). Maybe it has some sort of associate status? [/quote]
Sciences Po Grenoble isn't related to the Paris one (or the additional campuses outside Paris)