MFL at uni

[northender]

Dd is doing French, German and PE at A level (Y12) and is keen to continue with MFL in some form at uni. I'm interested to hear of other people's experiences of different courses. She liked the look of International business studies with French (& doing Spanish as an additional language) but now is thinking of pure languages. There seem to be so many different combinations including a language it's quite hard to navigate.

DS is in his final year of French & German at Oxford. He's loved it & says v wide choice of modules for whatever interests you. He's planning on a journo conversion Masters after...

I think Bath has a good reputation for MFL and business

@TizerorFizz

Sorry yes. I didn’t tag you *@thetwofridas*

I think it’s a shame to specialise too early. You can do translation on the year abroad. At least by then careers are looming. I would still contend that a traditional MFL degree keeps more doors open. Most MFL grads don’t use their languages.

Also what’s well paid? Translation isn’t. How many interpretors are there? Very few.

Fair enough! It's obviously a more "specialised" course than straight MFL, but on those courses you don't necessarily get the opportunity to study translation/interpreting right from the outset. It would be a way of studying those modules rather than filling your course with literature/artsy stuff which isn't up everyone's street. I think jobs-wise it doesn't pigeonhole you too much if you don't want it to as realistically you can get into to the same careers anyone with a regular MFL degree can.

I was referring to simultaneous interpreting (6 figure salaries if you're good), although literary translation is also paid well, though not at the same level. You're right that neither are hugely common careers though!

Does anyone have any experience of doing a MFL with maths or computing? Does anywhere even offer that sort of thing?

@JoggingNovice I haven't heard of that particular degree, there are MFL + Economics degrees available? Alternatively you could look at Liberal Arts where it would be possible to build a course that included languages and maths as the main part, although you would probably have to study some core Liberal Arts modules as well, especially in first year.

Sorry, but literary translation is not well paid generally. Also computer-aided translation tools with translation memories, machine translation and AI all mean that the prices for translation have been falling for years (if you're interested in typical rates based on language pair and subject matter, have a look on ProZ Translator Portal). Throw a text into Google's Translation Engine or DeepL and you'll be surprised how "polished" and accurate the generated translation is. This turns more and more translators into post-editors, for which they can't charge the same as for translating from scratch. And if you think interpreting is immune to these trends, you're wrong again bevause real-time virtual interpreting is already here (although the automation there will be probably slower and never as extensive as for written text). I write all this as a passionate and long-standing translator, who wouldn't listen to careers advisers years ago, and now earn little more than minimum wage (because I choose to stay in translation). The majority of translators and interpreters do unfortunately not end up working for the UN or the EU.

I'd support doing MFL with another subject. It just gives you more options long term (in my experience).

I wanted to do Economics and French, but I wanted them to be combined i.e. I could talk about economics in French rather than them both being taught as entirely separate subjects. So I declined Cambridge and LSE for this reason. Instead I did European Studies (Economics) which was joint honours in Economics and French (or whatever language you chose) with a smattering of law, politics, maths, history thrown in. This was at Kent which (at the time, no idea about now), was the leading uni for the course. Also helped by it being quicker to get to France from campus than get to London (pre-Brexit days sob!)

I was recruited as a grad by one of the Big Four, and after that moved into banking in the City. I've used my French a LOT at work but it's always been seen as a bonus rather than the basis for hiring. It got me transferred to the Paris office for a leading global consultancy. I now make 6 figures in the City and still use my French today (I work for a bulge bracket bank but several of my key stakeholders are French). But I'm invited to meetings because of my business skills rather than my language skills. To be honest, in Financial Services it's such a global melting pot that multi language speakers are ten a penny. So if FS is a direction of interest, you'll need a lot more than language fluency to stand out.

By contrast, my same age cousin did pure German at uni and became a translator. She still translates part time (rest of the time she does a sport) so it worked well for her as she wanted a different work-life balance to me.

One thing to also consider is where your DD's year abroad might be. I was sent (after having to pass multiple entry exams grrr) to Sciences-Po in Paris, one of the grandes-ecoles. I must admit it was brutal (exams every 2nd Sat afternoon, sob!) but has stood me in good stead ever since as it carries huge kudos in France and it's opened a few unexpected doors for me. Not the same for my fellow Kent students who went to Grenoble - but they are much better skiers than me . I was very jealous of them at the time.

I have quite a few friends who did International Business with Languages at Heriot-Wat in Edinburgh. They've all done astonishingly well for themselves and it seemed to attract a very strong, smart intake of students (again, not sure if this is still the case).

@HundredMilesAnHour very interesting post. It's great to read about someone using their languages for something other than teaching. To be fair you do sound like a massive high-flier.

Lol at 20yo you being annoyed bc you didn't get to brush up your ski skills in Grenoble

@thetwofridas

You are not entirely correct that literature and artsy stuff are not up anyones street. DD did both. In both countries abroad she did history of art at the universities. Other modules too but what did she get asked about at interview? History of art in Italy! You never know who will ask what! A good education is never wasted.

It’s always important to remember that most MFL grads are not going to be interpreters or translators. So having a broader education can be important. DD also enjoyed medieval poetry of the crusades. Many wouldn’t but some do. There are so many more jobs than teaching! It pays to look at a broader range of careers.

isn't up everyone's street. was the phrase used, not anyone's, though. As in, people are different, different people have different interests?

For 'Economics and French', or variants, try searching on the UCAS website e.g.
digital.ucas.com/coursedisplay/results/providers?studyYear=2022&destination=Undergraduate&postcodeDistanceSystem=imperial&pageNumber=1&sort=ProviderAtoZ&clearingPreference=None&searchTerm=Economics%20and%20french

@TizerorFizz

I think we've got our wires crossed here! OP mentioned specifically upthread that her DD wouldn't be interested in a literature heavy course, but was intrigued by the concept of translating/interpreting, hence my original suggestion. It wasn't meant to be catch-all advice or careers guidance (although we've sort of veered off down that route!) as of course you're right, MFL grads go into loads of different careers, many of which might not have occurred to them at the start of their degree.

Personally my course is very drama/lit/art history based as that's what interests me! Different strokes etc.

@thetwofridas
Yes I do agree with you. However it’s also fair to say a lot of 16/17 year olds really don’t know what careers might be open to them with a MFL degree.

The owner of my local garage (who is a very ambitious guy for his DC) couldn’t understand why my DD was doing MFL. What use will that be? Why doesn’t she want to be a management consultant? Or a lawyer? He didn’t understand that MFL degrees open up a world beyond the languages. MFL grads don’t have to teach or translate. But that’s what people will think that’s their limit and 16/17 year olds are often not exposed to any other meaningful advice.

When they get to a very good university like Bristol or Oxbridge they see other DC are looking at much higher paid careers. So they begin to see the bigger picture and make informed choices. DD went to debating society, law events, recruitment events and did work experience to improve her cv. She found out what she needed to do to get the career she wanted. At 16 she wasn’t sure how to do this. By 18 she had a plan!

So I’m really questioning whether DD really understands the choices open to her and that aiming high is possible if you are good enough! It’s easy to say translation when you don’t know about other careers that pay a lot more.

I can’t add too much to this debate, other than to agree with much of what’s already been posted. DD is a Y13 language applicant. She is quite bemused at the 2 distinctly opposed responses she gets when asked what she’s looking to study at uni. The first (and more likely), is very much like Tizor’s garage owner. The other from those who know she’s potentially already got her eye on SO MANY possible career paths. She has thought it through, aided by parents from international business backgrounds.

Definitely review each course, look at the modules. The good thing is many have more flexibility beyond the language aspect,
now, enabling students to build the course more around their own interests, whether that be literature, politics, history, film, arts and culture etc. Perhaps less so on the business side unless opting for a joint BA, but DD is hoping to get on an grad scheme where skills beyond language alone can be identified through the assessment process for most large orgs. With a view to post grad options a few years later.

Good luck with the research OP.

@TizerorFizz you seem to missing the point that all MFL degrees are skewed towards one of literature, translation, cultural studies or linguistics.

If it’s not explicit and students aren’t offered pathways they get pushed, usually by the department or course lead’s interests. If a student ends up on a course that doesn’t marry with their interests they won’t enjoy it and will potentially perform short of their ability.

Studying translation doesn’t mean that someone is preparing for a career as a translator, it’s a mechanism to improve their language skills 5the same as literature. Translation offers so many easily transferable skills, it actually uses a very similar skillset to literature in terms of analysing and breaking down the text, themes and voice in order to recreate it in the new language. I’d actually argue that it’s a great grounding for something like law because of the analysis, attention to detail, and ability to extract meaning on different levels.

@RestingPandaFace
The undergrad degrees are absolutely not all skewed at all! My DD had a myriad of options. She could have done the majority of what you seem to think are individual specialisms in an undergrad degree. She did translation! Of course she did. Where would you go where you didn’t do this? Ditto literature and culture. Linguistics might have been an option snd I have not checked. I don’t think she did it, but I can assure you best degrees cover all of this as options and some as compulsory. She had no difficulty transferring to law and I can assure you that translation skills made little difference to her ability to pass exams in a huge variety of legal and professional topics. I actually think her intellect had more to do with it!

I didn’t say that she wasn’t clever, and I’m not sure why you are getting so defensive. Your daughter is obviously intelligent and driven if she is now a barrister.

You seem very hung up though on translation being just for translators and a “traditional” course being better academically which isn’t true.

I obviously come from a foreign perspective because I didn't study translation in the UK. Since I did it abroad and not many employers have heard of my university, even though it is among the oldest in my country, it has not opened the career opportunities here that I had hoped. Something to consider maybe if your DD / DS is planning on settling and working outside the UK one day. If it's about becoming proficient in a foreign language (and not about studying literature and linguistics) it's better to spend time in a country where that language is spoken, whilst focusing on a career in a non-language subject, e.g. law, business, politics.

It’s a very good point ichindich. DD re-thought her uni options after managing to get a week in Spain last summer at a language school. She and her friend, both L6th were in a C1 level class with mostly overseas UG students who had missed their placement opportunities due to covid.The importance of total immersion learning and being able to speak proficiently enough to hold a prospective job role overseas was a game changer and focused her application needs.

Thanks again to you all, some really thought provoking stuff for us to bear in mind. tizer I understand perfectly what you've said and the choices your dd has made, but as I said early on, my dd would definitely not want a course heavy in literature content and realises that PE is not a subject heavy in essay content. She is very bright, but prefers a more practical approach so will play to her strengths, it's good that we're all different. We've read through the thread together and at the moment are looking at courses with a business element & will see where we get. Thank you all again for your input.

@northender
I think business and MFL works well and that’s why the course at Bath is a good one.

When you look, you will find the best universities offer a wide choice of modules and students are not pushed one way or the other unless they specifically choose that.

When applying for jobs, it’s always best to have some work experience. Whatever her linguistic ability, get work or volunteering on the cv! Once my DD decided on a career, she went all out to get it. I think the passive student doesn’t find it easy to get employed. It’s always worth remembering that students bring a package of skills to employers but some have more attractive package of skills than others!

To help her at university I do suggest she thinks about how to acquire essay writing skills. I think wherever you go they are needed and as she’s not doing an essay subject at A level, it’s worth looking into. Ditto skills for studying business. Good luck in finding the best course for her.