MSci or BSc?

[CornishGem1975]

Can someone briefly explain what is the difference between the two, and what benefits one has over the other?

All the MScis at the university where I work have a big research project. It is worth 80 credit points in my department. In my subject, it is exceptional to be awarded a PhD scholarship with just a BSc. A postgraduate MSc tends to be a more vocational thing that will take you in to industry but does also have a research project. MScs require a whole year of study so no summer vacation. A STEM academic career will require a PhD.

The only PhD students I know who also have a MSc (rather than an MSci) are ones who did an MSc and then the job market was v poor so they did a PhD to wait for it to improve!!

People sign up to a 4-year research degree to kill time? Sorry, I find that very hard to believe. A 1-year Masters, sure, my kids even have a term for that, they call it a 'panic Masters'. But 4 years? Apart from the time commitment, it isn't that easy to get funding for a PhD, so you might be signing up for 4 years of poverty… I think the number of people doing that across the UK must be pretty close to zero.

And yes, DD2's Masters was a full year, Calcite is right. She started on 25th Sept last year and her research project deadline was 31st Sept 2021. She's having some downtime now .

My DD has just started an MSci in Genetics. The grades for the MSci were higher than the BSc.

It seems like a great option and gives you the most scope. As PP have said easier to drop to the BSc than have to do the funding later.

@thing47 I’m sure it isn’t very common! But I know two of them personally. They were both v passionate about their subject, and the PhDs have also been a great help to them in their careers.

People sign up to a 4-year research degree to kill time?

No, they do it as a very sensible alternative to being unemployed or in a non ideal job. Doing a PhD can give you a higher entry level into companies and/or options which would be impossible without it. As well of course, as actually doing some original research and learning a lot. Of course it's not 'killing time'.

(Back in my day it was 3yr BSc then straight into 3yr PhD if you had a first or maybe 2:1 and could get a Quota or CASE award. There weren't many integrated masters other than perhaps MEng. MScs were for 'vocational specialisms' with quite a lot of taught content rather than research, or for people who'd not quite made the grade to go straight into a PhD. That was then!)

I was addressing talipesmum's comment that she knew people who did a PhD while waiting for the job market to improve – that doesn't smack to me of a deep, abiding desire to conduct original research…

In any case, she has since clarified what she meant so I get it now, but thanks for your patronising addition to the conversation.

[quote Talipesmum]@thing47 I’m sure it isn’t very common! But I know two of them personally. They were both v passionate about their subject, and the PhDs have also been a great help to them in their careers.[/quote]
I know two people that did that too - graduated in an industry downturn with zero jobs available so opted to study for a relevant PhD instead. Several others opted for Masters courses. It was a while ago though, when funding was more straightforward and you certainly could go straight from BSc into a PhD.

My Masters comprised 6 month taught courses and 6 month research project, so a full 12 months and 180 credits. DS has just graduated from an integrated MEng and his masters year was two semesters, with final exams / report deadlines in May, so 8 months and 120 credits.

Really it depends what kind of job you're looking for. Few places actually require a master's degree, but bachelor's degrees are becoming something of a commodity now... I think about half of students leaving sixth form now go on to get bachelor's degrees. A PhD is incredible for your CV but is only necessary for some very high ranking jobs.