Art A Level for 'competitive' Universities

[WellCromb]

DS thinks they probably want to take a Graphic Design degree - fine, they will take Art and beyond that GD courses don't really mind what other A Levels you offer (portfolio being rather more important). And rankings for this kind of course bear no relation to general University entrance of course. However, he isn't completely sure and if he doesn't go down that route then something like Computer Science/Maths is probably most likely. He is (if predictions mean anything) an 8/9 student all round and so could, potentially, look at Oxbridge/RG/other just as good places. But I am aware that Art is 'non-preferred' for some top courses. Institutions do say they would not rule someone out for having 1 A Level in the less desirable pile - but surely you are putting yourself at a disadvantage straight away? And would other institutions who are not explicit about not liking certain subjects nevertheless automatically see Art as lesser?
He is considering M, FM, Art, CS but is aware that Art workload is bonkers - I know FM/M is not considered as much work as any other 2 A Levels, but still....
Has anyone experience of that combination?
Or entry to high-ranking courses with Art, especially non-Arts/Hum courses?

I would say do 3 A Levels (e.g 3 sciences) with Art as a fourth subject possibly to be dropped depending on degree changing which needs to be decided by the end of Y12 anyway. They can do FM in one year in Y13, or I know some schools do Maths in Y12 and FM in Y13

If he did gcse art he could do Art Foundation and then go onto Graphic Design course.
My son did Art foundation course and it helped him to clarify what he wanted to do.
Your son may want to look at animation degrees, best of them are v.competitive and Art is a requirement from what I remember.

I think those 4 are fine as Maths/Further Maths is considered as one subject (in terms of teaching and lesson times).

FM gets the same timetable space as any other A Level at our school.

Yes, he could start with 4 and then ditch Art or another depending on preference. We just wonder whether even attempting 4 when that includes Art is a bit much?

He could do Art Foundation, and theoretically not bother with Art at VI form, but then he'd have to get onto the Foundation course with a portfolio entirely off his own bat which would be much more difficult and probably just as time-consuming.

WellCromb one of my DD's read History at Oxford with Art and Design as one of three A levels.

Lots of students at her school have gone to Cambridge with Art and Design and two Maths plus another - though for the most part that was for Architecture.

My opinion is 3+ an EPQ is the best bet, Oxbridge only ever offer on 3. If you're applying for STEM I would caveat it with 3 A Levels + FM. I know for an EPQ you can do it on Art, might this be a way around it? The Art courseload is a lot, but I do think 3 a levels + Art could work around it, then pick up FM in Year 13 if they choose to. BTW if they can do an international board (Pearson Edexcel or CIE) then they can do Art in Year 12 and get an AS qualification. Final option is to focus on the traditional academic subjects at school but keep building hp the portfolio in their own time, I know some places just ask for a Portfolio if they haven't done A Levels.

My ds is doing it as 4th with 3 essay based subjects. He’s found workload fine there are bottlenecks sometimes but I think that’s true of all the coursework subjects and he did quite a lot work getting his art folder into shape over summer holiday.He has less free lessons but he uses them to socialise not work anyway. He enjoys being able to chat in art and finds it relaxing and a bit of an escape. He had similar grades at gcse. maths doesn’t have huge homework element like essays or languages so he should be ok. His school offers option to do art coursework on site as after school activity and that makes it more manageable. Another option for allrounders is to move to 6th form that does IB as narrowing to 3 subjects can be tricky when you don’t have obvious best subject or interest. He didn’t do EPQ which most with 3 did so hasn’t found his workload massively more.

Art is not less desirable. It’s a subject that is required for certain courses. It’s excellent for architecture as mentioned above. Maths at university mostly requires maths. Art won’t hold him back. So why not maths, FM, art and a science? Some universities don’t view maths and FM as two completely separate A levels but some do. Could he study comp science without that A level? But the keeping art gives a good choice of degrees and especially architecture and GD. If he did Physics and not CS, engineering opens up too.

DD1 is doing Design Tech A level (with a view to doing Industrial Design/Graphic Design at university), Spanish and Sociology. I think what will get her into a good university/art college would be a very good DT portfolio plus good A-Level results generally. She wanted to do A-Levels and not IB so she could focus more on the DT side.

Art is required for most courses AFAIK
Let him look at animation courses, it may tick all of his boxes.

Sorry if I haven't been clear - 0bviously Art is desirable for Art based degrees. I'm not trying to argue that it isn't, that would be mad. I am talking about how it goes down for non-Art degrees. Cambridge describes it (and others) in the following way: "the way in which they are taught and assessed may mean that they do not provide a good preparation for the courses that the University of Cambridge offers". Sounds less desirable to me.
He is not interested in Animation.
Lots of different ideas on how to approach things though, so thank you for your thoughts.

If he likes maths and science, architecture or engineering makes more sense than animation.

Why are you just looking at Cambridge? That’s obviously looking for academic A levels. Graphic design elsewhere won’t. Many students won’t have all academic A levels. As poster said above, art was ok for History at Oxford.

In terms of DD's non Art degree, Oxford said it was unusual to accept Art as one of three, which implies it is regarded with a slight question mark even though Oxford is generally more flexible than Cambridge.

As one of four, it becomes almost irrelevant.

I used to teach art Ale el. One of mine got in to study Medicine at a top uni. They were impressed with her ‘breadth’ of study.

"the way in which they are taught and assessed may mean that they do not provide a good preparation for the courses that the University of Cambridge offer’

That would be enough for me to dissuade any of my dc from applying there. Elitist nobs. Art is really hard academic work if done properly.

You have been selective in your quote from Cambridge OP! The next sentence says don’t study more than one of these subjects. Not don’t study them at all!

However there is going to be a difference between the Cambridge course and Graphic Design elsewhere. Plus the desire to consider computer science. It’s difficult to square this circle with 3 A levels because the courses have differing requirements. So he might need to decide what he wants. Academic or a design course based on portfolio entry.

Yes, in the OP I did acknowledge the fact that they wouldn't necessarily turn you away for having one of these subjects - but surely you are making life more difficult for yourself if this is the way they view things?
We are very much not only looking at Cambridge (for all kinds of reasons), we are aware other places are less prescriptive, but wonder if they think it, but don't actually say it?
Agree Engineering is worth thinking about and narrowing down to something that might suit. Architecture is a bit of a vocation I think, lots of years of study and it's not something he is interested in (I think it's dead cool, but that is obviously neither here nor there.)

I do think for science at Cambridge, Art might be counter productive if he’s doing 3 A levels. But if he wants Graphic Design elsewhere, it’s needed! I don’t think Art would be looked down on elsewhere. A neighbour’s DS did M,FM and P. Went to Exeter to do maths. Would they have taken him with Art as well? Of course!

So if he can do M, FM, Art and a science he keeps options open. I also think GD is a vocation. It’s not well paid!

If his school only allows 3 a levels, just ensure the other two are very desirable

Also bear in mind that graphic design isn’t offered at many RG universities. Loughborough and Edinburgh. Add in Glasgow if you add in technology. Most of these courses are at former polys (as you would expect) and they cannot be compared with Cambridge academically but they are good at these courses. So I think he needs to decide if he wants an arts focus or a science one at university.

@gogohm
But what should the two subjects be? Cambridge likes M and FM. But what about the science?

At my (v academic) school it was very common to do art as a fourth a level (with essay subjects) or as a fifth (with science/maths&FM). My best friend did it as a fifth with maths, FM, bio & chem as I remember. She went to Cam for Nat Sci but loved doing the art. I actually considered adding it myself as it was so well taught and they were v encouraging about my GCSE portfolio but I was doing 4 x essay subjects as it was. We were boarding though which probably increased flexibility -- life drawing classes were in the evening etc.

DS did Art A level and it is absolutely what got him into the Bartlett School of Architecture (UCL). I know your DS isn't into architecture, but what about urban design? It's kind of art/engineering/graphic design/architecture.

www.sheffield.ac.uk/usp

University of Sheffield has a brilliant department of urban planning/design/studies.