Help - DD wants to study her weakest subject at Uni

[cassgate]

Ok. Dd has since year 10 said she wants to study a particular subject at Uni. Her A level choices were made on the basis that they were the combination that most uni’s asked for to study the subject. Roll on to year 13 and we are now in a situation that she has just found out that her predicted grade in the subject she wants to study is lower than most uni’s will accept. Unis want an A, she is currently sitting at a C with a predicted best grade of B. Her other subjects she is currently sitting at a B with best grades of A in both. We have had a heart to heart tonight and I have explained she has two choices. Pull her socks up and seriously put in the time and effort to pull up the grade to at least a secure B ( there are a few uni’s that will accept B) or change direction and look at alternative subjects that will accept lower grade. I also offered to find her a tutor. The problem is she is adamant that she does not want to study anything else but still puts off opening a text book or looking at past papers. I really don’t know what else to do. Any words of wisdom that anyone can offer would be grateful as I am seriously floundering and flit from wanting to back off because I am fed up of seemingly talking to a brick wall to feeling guilty of not trying to help her.

Or a third option… let her do what she enjoys, which in the long term she’s likely to do better at and find a more fulfilling career with?

As long as she realises that she might go to a prestigious uni and the implications of that, I’d let her get on with it (but still offer the tutor).

You are trying to help her, you've offered advice, options and a tutor. Unfortunately, that's all you can do. I'd stop pushing and allow her to start making her own decisions and effort.

You don't say what subject, but plenty of unis will accept a B in the subject studied. DD is studying eng lit with a B at A level at a good uni - not RG but that's not the be all IMHO.

Unis may say they want an A but they don't all get that.

What subject and where is she looking at? I agree tho, you have offered support and might now need to step back.

I’m assuming she is 16 or 17. Time to let her figure it out. You’ve offered advice and practical help, it’s now up to her.

She’ll either study and get into a uni for her desired subject, or she won’t have the grades required and will realise she should’ve applied herself earlier. Either way it won’t be the end of the world, she can always try again later.

I’m currently supporting a younger sibling through a similar process and I’ve helped all I could, but I’m unable to get them to physically start working towards it. It’s their decision at the end of the day, and at 16/17 they’re more than capable of taking one.

Agree with previous posters, time to step back and let her figure it out. You can still be there to catch her if she falls, but this is a decision she needs to make for herself. (I got a B in the subject I studied at uni and it was the perfect degree for me...)

Is this a STEM subject? DS always believed he wanted to study Math but a few of his class struggled in year 12. He managed to pull it back but he decided it was no longer for him. It can be a shock to the system when the subject you see as your top subject suddenly becomes difficult. DD was a bit like this with History.

Youve given her the choices, leave her to it.

As an aside, she has 5 choices on her UCAS form so as long as a couple of those ask for lower grades, or perhaps add in a foundation year choice, she should be ok. (Just because a uni says they want an A btw doesn't mean they won't accept a B when results come out - though this may be less common next year due to the current shitshow the yr 13s are in.)

Second aside - both mine ended up getting their lowest A level grade in their degree subject - didn't make a difference (one got a C in fact and is still at an RG.)

A C wouldn’t get you into a very competitive subject at RG. So subject is everything. Some will take lower grades for courses most often in clearing to get bums on seats. Often popular subjects will want the A at the best universities.

I feel the former polys are best at what they were set up to do. Teach vocational degrees. Therefore I’m not a fan of academic subjects at such universities if the DC could have done business or similar. I think these universities have strong links with employers and it’s best to stick to their strengths.

However in this case. Just let her apply. It’s one choice out of 5. If it’s regularly in clearing, they might take the B. So very little to lose.

If she's in year 13 she should be aware with a fair bit of her course already completed, of what her predicted grades are likely to be - this shouldn't be a surprise.

You've given her options- what's her preference?

@Boulshired

Is this a STEM subject? DS always believed he wanted to study Math but a few of his class struggled in year 12. He managed to pull it back but he decided it was no longer for him. It can be a shock to the system when the subject you see as your top subject suddenly becomes difficult. DD was a bit like this with History.

“Math”?

You’re in the US then?

Get her a tutor. Suggest 2hrs/week minimum. It will be enforced revision and will give her a chance at getting a B in her preferred subject.

When will predicted grades be finalised? Hopefully there is time to get predicted grade of B.

Is she eligible for contextual offer from unis? These commonly allow you to be offered/accepted at one grade lower than the advertised eligibility grades. Most uni webpages will have links to tell you by your post code and so on, if she is eligible for contextual offer from them. If she is, then a C is usually enough for a course asking for a B.

If the above fails, keep up tutor and have her keep a choice open for clearing so she can apply after her grades are issued which hopefully would be at B level.

Lolz leave her alone !

What about suggesting one of her choices is a back up? So different subject in preferred uni instead of foundation year

Time to let her figure it out for herself, honestly. Reality will set in soon enough.

It probably depends on the subject. Some are harder than others & grade B is a good grade. It's harder to get A* or A in a language because of native speakers. In something like Chemistry it would be harder to get a top grade.

The problem is she is adamant that she does not want to study anything else but still puts off opening a text book or looking at past papers.

Sounds like she doesn't seriously want to study this subject either... if she won't put in the work for A level, does she really want to spend 3 years and a lot of money studying it at uni?

Tbh if she won't put the graft in is she suited to uni at all?

My dd has just started, she's a fairly studious and academically able person and even she felt overwhelmed when presented with the reading lists.

Uni isn't the doss people used to think it was, it requires work! If students don't make the effort they can fairly quickly lose their place these days there are attendance and minimum achievement requirements etc

Unis are very much operating as businesses now and they don't want lazy/unengaged students pulling their stats down

All that said as per pps there's a limit to what you can do to change her mindset. You can advise, you can guide...

But if she doesn't step up and do the work none of that will matter.

In addition not all 18 year olds are ready for uni, for various reasons people may choose to take some time out of education and return to it at a later date and lots of unis/lecturers say older/more mature students tend to apply themselves better

I didn't go to uni until my mid 20's as I didn't have the financial support to do so in reality -but did on paper until I could prove myself independent from my parents. I also went in my 30's to career change and had a very different approach to the younger students

Dd is 20 and has had a couple of years out working full time as she wasn't sure what she wanted to do plus she felt she needed a break from education for a bit. But she's got a place at a very good uni as she has the ability and has proven in other ways she can do the work.

I have just been discussing similar with dd as she commented at one of her ice breakers another student mentioned having no particular interest in their subject and thinking they may have made a mistake, I had someone on my 2nd course complain about all the reading that was required - on an English course!

But then there's also course switching and clearing which can shake things out.

A fellow student of mine started at a different uni doing a business based course that they thought they'd enjoy and be good at and they hated it! They didn't settle at the first uni either which was a good uni but one of the very big campus ones. They moved to our uni which was one of the newer (not ex poly though) and smaller more friendly campus ones.

Everyone's different

I'm seeing it with friends kids too. One went to her "local" uni as she thought she'd struggle with homesickness but has since had a change of heart and is now at the other end of the country studying the same subject but different uni so slightly different course content too and she's liking it there much more

Hi all,

Thank you all for your input. It really has helped. I know that I need to step back from it and leave her alone. Think my nagging is making things worse. It is a Stem subject. The main problem I think is that she has always found school easy and has always achieved top grades with very little effort and needs realise that its not like like anymore. We had already investigated uni’s that would take less than an A with a view to having one of those as insurance choice. The two she liked have excellent links into industry with 90% of students gaining employment in the industry within 6 months of graduating so all is not lost but we will see. Thanks again everyone.

I did my A levels many years ago, before RG was even invented (or, if it was, I'd certainly never heard of it!) I got AAAB. The B was in the subject I'd wanted to study at university since primary school, and that's what I studied. It honestly never entered my head that B was a poor grade, or that I should have studied one of my "better" subjects, as I just didn't enjoy them as much and wouldn't have enjoyed the degree as much. My parents were completely clueless about uni, but there's no way I would have listened to anything they'd advised at that age anyway.
I realise things are v different (more difficult/ competitive) now, but the fact that she's found a couple of courses which will accept lower than an A in that subject, with excellent links to industry, sounds very positive. I'd think it was better to do a course she enjoys rather than one of her higher graded subjects at a higher ranked university that she's not that interested in.

It’s not the end of the world to study a Stem subject with a B. Also links with industry are valuable and she’s right to look for this and employability. If she’s looking at a practical stem course, I would always consider the former polytechnics. They might be ok with a B. Many employers value these courses because they produce very employable young people. In his discipline of a stem subject, engineering, my DH is very happy to employ well trained practical grads. That doesn’t mean they have been to a RG university! it’s not all about A level grades, it’s about what you can do as an employee. So taking what might look like a lesser course doesn’t necessarily pan out like that when it comes to getting a job. Most stem subjects have decent employment rates from most universities.

DS was in year 12 when he had a mental block in a subject he had found easy, a subject that everyone had told him he had a gift for. In many subjects if you have achieved A* or 8/9 it’s usually predicted the same for A level. But with other subjects you are competing with a wide range of abilities. DS was in a room where the lowest grade was one 7. With him the mental block cleared but at the time he felt there was no way he was ever going to get it.

Very much agree with TizerorFizz, but with one addendum.

DD1 did exactly this, got Bs in her 2 science A levels, chose a solid, non-RG former-polytechnic for her practical STEM subject which included a year working in industry and where the teaching was very good.

She then decided to pursue a more academic route and has recently finished a Masters at a university ranked above everywhere bar Oxford for her particular field. Her Masters place of study was only interested in what she did during her undergrad, not her A levels.

I think that’s also a perfectly good career path. The first degree doesn’t have to be an end to studying when it’s from a lower tariff university. All options remain open!

Let her study what she wants. A first from a so-so uni is more valuable than a poor grade from a top one. She has to make a career out of the subject she chose so it should be something she enjoys. She can always do a Master’s at a top uni after.

If she changes her mind, she can change subjects or uni.

Hi all, that you all for your reassurance. She spoke to her teacher today who was very positive. She said that Dd is capable of getting an A but obviously her current work is not showing this. Her teacher apparently only got a B and went on to study the subject to masters level. The courses we are looking at are 4 year integrated masters courses with a year in industry and the ones that have really caught dd’s attention are ex polys that have the good links with industry and good employment track records. We are now looking for tutors (her teacher can recommend someone but is checking if they have space). We have also found some good online resources which Dd likes the look of which offer free trials. On the whole Dd is much more positive and optimistic today. Thanks again to everyone who has offered advise and reassurance, it really has helped.