Oxbridge "extras"

[pisspants]

I am not too sure on this so was hoping I could get some advice here.
Dd is year 11 and doing very well with good predicted GCSE grades. It is still too early to know if she could realistically consider Oxbridge but I see a lot of chat about having extras on personal statements relating to the subject they are wanting to do if considering applying there. DD is interested in studying history, so I was just wondering what sort of extras would be the type of thing she would need to demonstrate? As it could help with any other uni she may want to apply for it would be great to have more of an idea so can start looking into it if anyone is able to advise?

Essay competitions. Attendance at Nye testing talks and seminars. Volunteering at a local museum. Extended essay or project. That kind of stuff.

DS1 is studying Chemistry and got with experience at a plastic film manufacturer, did Chemistry competitions, wrote an extended essay (not EPQ), helped out as a lab technician at school and to tutored younger pupils. He did attend a residential course at Manchester University at the end of Year 12 as well.

thanks @SandyBayley
Can I ask more about NYE testing and seminars? I did a quick google and couldn't see anything.
What sort of organisations do the extended essays and projects?
She attends a state comp and I am not sure they put them in for this sort of thing so would need to be done independently.

DD is due to start there shorty. She didn't really do anything extra related to her subject. She did research how many places each college offered for her course in relation to the number of students in the college to work out which gave her more of a chance.

I'm a History teacher at a school that sends a lot of kids to OB. At least one historian every year. Work experience etc not necessary (although if your daughter can get a place volunteering at a museum or similar I'm sure she'd get a lot out of it). History is a subject where it's very important to take an independent interest outside A Levels and "read around". EPQ/essay competitions are great because they pursue something independently and read lots of books. It's good practice for university style work. Most essay competitions are in Year 12. She could also just choose areas of history related to her school study or otherwise and read books and articles/watch lectures. Important to not just do this but reflect on what she took from them so I advise students to keep a kind of journal/book review sort of thing. She also needs to get used to talking about History so ideally she should discuss what she reads with someone - a similarly inclined friend, teacher, you. Reading is the key. I'm happy to offer more specific advice if you want to PM me. There are specific summer school/course type things aimed at prospective history students but they can be very expensive.

Sorry @pisspants that was a typo! I meant to say attendance at interesting talks and seminars! We're in London and DS1 got along to lots of lectures and events at the universities and royal institution etc. My DD is applying for medicine this year and she's very much the same.

In my experience this kind of activity is the sort of stuff that students with a deep interest in their subject would do anyway. I appreciate not all students might be aware it's available for free though.

DD is about to start history.
This is what she did:
She read books around history - mostly around the topics she was doing at school but going into more depth.
She read a couple of history overview books.
She went to a lot of lectures in London pre-covid - but we live in London - they were largely political but some historical context to things (she didn't really do that for uni but because she really found it all interesting).
She started volunteering at the local museum.
She listened to loads of podcasts, particularly after covid started; she'd recommend "Talking Politics - The History of Ideas".

Oh and she did an essay competition but didn't do well so didn't mention that in her PS. She chose not to do an EPQ because we advised against it as she was doing 3 essay subjects, two of which had coursework, but I think it might have meant an easier interview (in the sense that she might have more idea about what they would have asked about).

@Chilldonaldchill - that's really funny. Your DD did almost exactly what I idly suggested! I hope she has a lovey first year.

My dd is also about to start history at Oxford. Her journey was actually quite organic and was predominately reading. She probably started from early L6th and really just delved into books/online history magazines/podcasts on anything she was curious about. The stuff she read for 'fun' was actually nothing to do with her history A'level. Indeed, a lot was historical fiction, like Hilary Mantel, Rupert Graves, Barbara Kingsolver etc. I don't think she was reading specifically to put things in her ucas PS, she was genuinely interested and enjoyed it. Sometimes reading a historical novel would pique her interest and she would go off to find out more and it would spiral from there. She did an EPQ on an area of Ancient Far Eastern history that fed from what she had read (EPQ's were compulsory at her school for those not doing 4 a'levels). I believe she also did a Cambridge essay prize over the summer of L6th quite last minute but she kept that quiet so obviously didn't win! Here is a link to a Cambridge college essay competition (this one does several subjects) but you can google others.

www.newn.cam.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduates/newnham-essay-prizes/

She also did a Mooc (a really short online course - I think she found it by googling!) on a theme relating to something she had read.
Her PS was all about stuff she had read with a paragraph on her EPQ. One interview at O centered around a concept - 'language used in historical fiction and what words can tell us' - so nothing to do with the history she was reading about (although they clearly noted her love of historical fiction) but simply exploring the abstract concept which my dd found fascinating.
Maybe at this stage start small by reading short articles in history magazines, see what interests her and take those interests further in whatever form she can find. Good luck with the process.

I have three DC who read History at Oxford and did well (as in got Firsts). We live a long way from London so no lectures etc down our way. They also didn’t enter any essay competitions although these do seem very much the thing to do at independents. Apart from top grades and demonstrating an obvious interest in the subject by reading well beyond the syllabus, the only thing they did was some relatively interesting work experience, but I really don’t think that would have swayed a tutor one way or the other.

Lots of good advice on here already but I just wanted to say that if you're nowhere near lectures, big museums etc because of where you live, then reading books and watching/listening to online lectures is fine. Also doing short courses online would help. Since covid, a lot of conferences are online anyway, so she could attend those to listen in if she's interested in the topic (often, you don't have to pay a registration fee).

Chaotica it would be a curious thing if reading itself didn’t suffice. MN advice on Oxbridge can be very London centric. Living several hundred miles from London really takes the pressure off I tell you. The assumption that all areas have sufficient internet is interesting too, even before the museums, live lectures etc. Books are necessary but completely sufficient.

Short courses online? What sort of short courses? Wouldn’t they be very elementary, by definition?

Reading books is clearly the most accessible way for a student to extend their knowledge beyond what is taught in school and will certainly suffice on its own. However, hopefully this thread will help anyone applying for history to understand what is out there, whether they live in a huge city with tons of opportunities or rurally with limited options. It's not a competition on what or how much you can access but more about following your interests and showing on your PS what fascinates you. I've no idea how many people don't have access to the internet but a hell of a lot do (whether just on a mobile phone or at school), and there are a wealth of resources online. The Oxford and Cambridge faculty websites also have resources. Entering essay competitions is certainly not a requirement but they do have a benefit of focusing the student on research/writing a paper/arguing a point on an area of interest - so even just the process (irrespective of outcome) is educational in itself.
In response to @goodbyestranger , here is a link to a randomly selected and more importantly 'free' online course delivered by the University of Kent. It's a 4 week (16 hrs) MOOC. Just a taster of what is out there and if military history is not your thing there are hundreds of others.

www.kent.ac.uk/news/society/24189/free-online-course-on-british-army-history-attracting-major-attention
I've also (hopefully!) attached screenshots of the course content which I think shows it's fairly reasonable content for a 16/17 yr old A'level student wanting to go beyond the school syllabus.

Here is the link to the MOOC website too.

www.mooc.org/

YouTube is also a great resource. My youngest (12urs old) spends hours watching stuff about naval history and war time airplanes. He hates school history but has amassed a wealth of knowledge from YouTube on the stuff he likes. He will probably be a great addition to any pub quiz team!

Photos didn't attach first time

thanks everyone some great ideas to get thinking about. @Toastfiendish I may well pm you at some point if that's ok.

@goodbyestranger I'm precisely not giving London-centric advice (because I would love the number of applicants from outside the south east of England to increase to reflect the population). I spent many years doing oxbridge admissions and the advice I'm giving is what is currently suggested by the admissions teams involved in widening access to oxbridge.

I didn't mean to imply that reading books would not suffice. But the fact is that many potential would-be applicants do not have access to them either. Libraries have closed or been cut back, and books are expensive to buy. For some applicants, the internet is a more reliable way to access serious texts or watch lectures on the subject of their choice. Obviously, not everyone has a reliable internet connection, but that is not always related to geography.

As far as short online courses go, they are not elementary and are often pitched at just beyond A level. The OU used to run some (I am not a historian, so I don't know whether they do in history).

I see @Jalfrezi beat me to it with the courses.

My D1 is at Oxford doing a History joint degree. I would say first of all, don't worry too much about no. of places per college etc - although you can express a preference for a particular college, being reallocated is very common. They aim to interview about three students for every place and then spread the interviews across the colleges - so good candidates won't be disadvantaged by applying to an oversubscribed college.

It sounds obvious, but read loads, and be able to talk about what you've read. D1 also went to free public lectures, our two local universities both run these. Watched lots of documentaries. We're a long way from London, but did go for a couple of weekends for the BM, a few big exhibitions etc.

www.univ.ox.ac.uk/applying-to-univ/staircase12/ Staircase 12 is worth a look - plenty of suggestions for further reading.

She didn't do any essay competitions, or the EPQ.

Some universities do subject based taster days for 6th formers - they are good to show commitment (also gives some taste of what it’s like as a UG subject as opposed to A level)

Chaotica apologies if my post was badly written to imply that you were also guilty of Londoncentricicity - not my intention.

For essay competitions run by Oxbridge colleges Google Julia Wood, Robson and Vellacott. They run at different times of the sixth form cycle and usually in year 12. Some have set questions and some allow you to choose your subject. There are a couple of women only ones too which I can't recall the name of. DS did a couple - one that tied in with EPQ choice anyway and another. He enjoyed the research element.

The thing to note is that winning the prize doesn't guarantee a place as some have seen over the past years. However especially if they don't do an EPQ it is a good way to practise research skills and help them decide whether history is really the degree for them.

DS also volunteered online for The Narional Archives transcribing handwritten documents onto a database.

I think you’re looking at this the wrong way round. Your daughter needs to pursue the activities that interest her and draw her in, that way she will also be able to talk about them naturally at the interview. I wouldn’t worry too much about having History related hobbies, they’d surely rather see that she was a well rounded individual. I do think it would be of value for her to do some work experience in a field that history related graduates actually commonly end up working in though, as I have feeling it’s unlikely to be History related.

@goodbyestranger

Short courses online? What sort of short courses? Wouldn’t they be very elementary, by definition?

Maybe but it doesn't matter if they cover a different area to that being studied at A level, or maybe the same area but a particular aspect. A few years ago I did a course on Futurelearn which covered various artefacts and their history and one aspect of the course was the Spanish Civil War and the "they will not pass" story. It was a very interesting course. Something like that would be free to access and interesting to talk about at interview.

Equally if someone reading this has offspring interested in other subjects, there are so many different courses on Futurelearn eg there was a great one on Switzerland and its role outside the EU which would be of interest for those wanting to do politics and/or international relations.

Here are the history courses on Futurelearn: www.futurelearn.com/courses?filter_category=16&filter_course_type=open&filter_availability=started