Incredibly disappointing start

[justgotnewspecs]

I've just started an undergraduate course. I'm older and went to university many years so this is my second degree. It's a vocational healthcare course so I'm aiming for a particular job at the end rather than doing it for the love of the subject. I have a bit of experience of this area already so I'm not completely clueless about the subject.

However, the first couple of weeks have been a huge letdown. The timetable and room bookings hadn't been finalised when we arrived. We have literally seen five different timetables in different formats with different details. All of the module information is online and it has been a bloody nightmare to navigate as there is a huge volume of information for each module and each lecturer uses their own format. Each module has its own timetable within the online learning platform which we have been told to continuously check as rooms will probably change. These timetables are buried somewhere in the module information. All of my cohort are struggling to know where they should be and what they should be doing. I'm probably one of the more well informed students in that regard.

We had a session on professionalism yet three lecturers have already demonstrated that this doesn't apply to them (i.e. do what I say not do what I do). Two of these were in a lecture and one was an email exchange between me and said lecturer.

Prior to this, I had a career (of sorts). I'm very well organised, tech savvy and have worked in professional environments. I have worked with senior management and think I know how to behave/not overstep/not irritate people. I'm also quite quiet so hopefully not that 'bolshy middle aged mature student' type.

I consulted a friend yesterday who did a similar course at masters level. She said her course was the same and the only way she got through was to suck it up, not complain and keep a very low profile. She told me not to expect it to improve and, unfortunately, I am long enough in the tooth to know she is right.

I took this path to escape the corporate machine and work in a more supportive environment yet I'm having a major wobble. Yes, to get through it, I know I need to look at the long term goal but can I really suck this up for three years? I'm assuming I have to accept being spoken to like a thick schoolgirl, putting up with the chaos and not being able to query or raise concerns for fear of being branded a troublemaker? Is this what I really want?

I’ve just started a healthcare degree as a mature student. Sorry to hear about your experience, that doesn’t sound good at all. Have you got into the actual teaching yet as opposed to induction? I’ve been struggling a bit as the induction has been very repetitive and lots of students are asking the same questions over and over, but I’m trying to be patient!
Could you give yourself until Christmas to make a decision? It’s still really early days.

I’m wondering now if you’re on my course as I’ve had the same experience this week 🤦‍♂️🤣

@LikeSilver

How funny if it was! How are you feeling?

I feel very tempted to pull the plug at the moment but have promised myself I will do the work and pitch up next week.

I’ve felt very patronised this week. I’m 36, but the nature of my course means (initially at least) that my masters level course students are in the same lectures as the undergraduates (most of whom are 18/19). There has been a lot of ‘you’re not at school any more’ type talk 🤔 I’ve kept my mouth shut so far but if this continues on past the first week I will have to point out that not only does respect go both ways but even the undergraduates are adults.

The organisation has been pretty rubbish - like you we’ve had issues with timetables not being released/incomplete timetables. What I’m most cross about is the fact I’ve sent four emails (to three different people, I’m trying not to bombard, and I felt they were all important questions I couldn’t have found answers to myself) and only one has been responded to. I’ve come from a public sector role where I would have been hauled across the coals for failing to respond to a client’s message.

I’m not feeling like I want out (yet) but I can understand why you are. Does your course have placements? I’m counting on mine to hopefully be treated like an adult again. Also, have you met any other people? That always helps I think, having people not necessarily your age but on your wavelength.

@LikeSilver, are you masters or undergraduate?

Although a lot of the undergraduates are 18/19 on my course, a lot of them aren't! Quite a few of us are older and had lives outside education. The professionalism seminar is at odds with what has been going on around us. I have literally felt like a child a couple of times this week.

Yes, we do have placements. The first one will be next year. Mind you, I have been already been warned by my friend not to get my hopes up as it very much depends on where you are assigned. Her experience wasn't great.

My friend did her masters at a different university but she said that she had a similar conversation with someone who had done a different course at a different university (again) and they had experienced very similar issues. She said that her cohort were given a very strong message that anyone who dared to question anything would be thrown off the course. After one of her friends got her fingers burnt for querying something relatively minor they all vowed to just keep their heads down and do what they needed to do to get through.

I have met a few nice people. I'm not really aligned to any particular group as I'd prefer to suss out the lie of the land initially.

I chose this over another route into something else and I'm starting to think I should have gone in the other direction now. It would involve time and investment but not three years of study and not earning. I guess I need to decide quickly so that I'm not stung for the tuition fees.

That sounds annoying. Not at all like my own experience of Master’s level study, and not something I’ve heard people saying before. Do you think Covid has destabilised their organisation, or is it something inherent in that particular institution?

Just in case more mature students have encountered the same, do you mind if I cross reference you with this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4327788-Is-there-a-specific-Mature-Study-Retraining-board?msgid=110096218

which will emerge, next week, as part of a new Mature Study board.

(Sorry, I know you’re talking about undergrad study - it was the ‘mature’ element I’m comparing to my own experience.)

Thanks Edmontina

Will keep a look out for the new board.

@justgotnewspecs and @LikeSilver how are you feeling about a new week ahead?

We have online lectures for most of this week but that’s good from my point of view re travel as I have no fuel 🤦🏻‍♀️

Hi! Yes I’m masters. I’m feeling excited to get stuck in and hopeful that things will be better than last week. Or at least more interesting! We’re 50/50 face to face lectures and online lectures, so I’m also waiting for the inevitable covid (370 people in one room last week and the same this week 😱 I felt unsafe as only about half in masks). How about you?

Yep I’m keen to get going properly. I’m also expecting covid to make an appearance - 130 ish in a lecture theatre three times last week for several hours. Very low mask wearing, possibly 5%. And it’s healthcare!

I'm assuming I have to accept being spoken to like a thick schoolgirl

I think so, sadly. When I was a post-grad some people were late back to a session after a break on our first day. Instead of having a go at the people who were late, they had a go at all of us. I was cross at the time (clearly as I have remembered it) but didn't say anything. However, now I think I really would be bolshy enough to say something so it's probably good that you won't!

Sorry OP, I'm going into the third year of an allied healthcare course and it sounds about right. The timetable lunacy usually dies down over the course of a couple of weeks (although they never quite manage to get that mature students with kids need to pre-arrange childcare), and eventually the "stating the bloody obvious" sessions drop off a little bit - but I remember notable ones like "don't wear trainers and ripped jeans to placement" and "traffic cones are not wizard's hats".

And yep we had the sessions on emailing professionally - from a staff member who averages about 4 emojis in her replies to you (we love her though and we do gently take the Mickey out of her for it)!

We're all pretty argumentative buggers though if something's not right and our course team are really (bar one) very keen to get things sorted out for us though.

Induction generally is painful going - but when they got onto the course content - bloody loads very fast.

Thanks everyone

I've done a bit of work over the weekend. Not as much as I was planning to but I haven't felt brilliant about it all. We went out for a walk earlier and I had a little cry. DH said he would support me whatever I decide.

We're just about to start week 2 so the work has already been coming in from every angle.

We're pretty much face to face for everything. Have been advised that lectures will be online if there are 50+ students. Everyone is wearing masks. One of the instructions that was barked at us last week!

Hey all great news on the actual proper board for us mature students.

NEWS!

The new ‘Mature Study and Retraining’ board has been set up in Education. I’m encouraging everyone with relevant threads to ask MNHQ to move them there, so all the support and advice posters can offer will be accessible in one place.

I hope you’ll do so, OP. And that things are improving on your course.

I’m a uni lecturer on a course with a lot of mature students but also a large number of 18yos. Sadly every year I see students (and sometimes it’s the mature ones) who exhibit unprofessional behaviour.

I’m guessing you’re maybe doing a health type course or maybe teaching…..if so remember that fitness to practice is a thing for students on such courses. Every year we end up with students on a fitness to practice course which I hate doing. I’d much rather not have to do it so would prefer to try and give that talk to remind people. Rather than 8 weeks down the line having to tell someone they’re going to a hearing and them saying it isn’t fair as they didn’t know it was a possibility.

I was a mature student when I trained and I remember sitting there in the lecture when we all got told if we got caught out smoking pot, etc we’d be thrown off the course and how we couldn’t act like normal students. It didn’t apply to me as I was far too old and sensible for such behaviour but I appreciated we all had to be told the same thing.

Timetabling is a nightmare and sadly what you’ve said rings true for every uni I’ve studied and taught at (7 so far). It’s not acceptable but please remember it won’t be the lecturers…..timetabling is done centrally and it drives me mad that it’s done so late. I’ve raised it again this year that we need to move the whole thing a month forward to get the initial timetable done earlier. But I can’t control it.

2 weeks in is maybe a bit too early to make any decisions. It’s a major adjustment and yes stuff like this doesn’t help. Do talk to your personal tutor about how you’re feeling. We don’t label people as trouble makers for genuine concerns and thoughts. Sometimes we even reflect on what they’re saying and change things, sometimes we can just offer advice. Sometimes sadly some stuff may have to be sucked up as sessions have to be aimed at the majority and yes sometimes you won’t think it’s relevant to you. Could you volunteer to be course rep?

I have just completed week 3 of my midwifery degree. It has been incredible with no issues whatsoever. We are the first cohort so had been warned about potential issues but there have been non. We have 2 days online and 3 in Uni and two of those are practical sessions in the skills lab.

If the course is what you want to do, please don’t quit yet. Give it a couple more weeks.

My course had 33 on it and only 2 are out of college, the rest are older and I’m the second oldest. The young ones are a bit of a pain if I’m honest!

Looking forward to the mature students board :)

You’ll find it here, NewLifePending:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mature_students

Thanks everyone

I'm still here. I did decide to withdraw earlier in the week but have struggled on after having a chat with one of the lecturers.

The professionalism thing is an odd one. I understand that everyone needs to know what is acceptable behaviour but a couple of the lecturers don't seem to realise this applies to them too! This week one of the lecturers described something that had happened to her. It was an exchange between her (non-British) and a 'middle aged white woman'. The woman pulled her up on something in public and she immediately assumed the woman was being a racist. The behaviour wasn't really culturally acceptable but I've seen people do this in public myself (even white British) and they've been called out. She repeatedly kept saying about this 'middle aged white British' woman. I was pretty appalled to be honest. She was using this as an example to explain something but it wasn't really appropriate and a bit out of context. Worryingly, this is the lecturer I had a very odd and rather rude email exchange with. FWIW, I too am 'a middle aged white British' woman.

@NewLifePending I'm really glad to hear that you course is going well. Out of interest, what is your workload like? Our contact hours are about 20 to 25 per week and only 3 of those (and not even every week). We also have a lot of post and pre-session work. We have five modules this semester and one of those had about ten hours of prep this week. Another had about five hours of prep work before the week 1 lecture. I only just managed to see that in time because the online learning platform is so bloody confusing and the lecturer concerned doesn't seem to know how to use the platform properly and doesn't send alerts. I've looked at what I have to do this week and it's going to be pretty tight to get it all done. I just don't know when I am going to fit in any self-directed reading.

In terms of the workload, I know everyone is struggling. Someone I'm quite friendly with, who is older and seems to be on top of things, said she worked all weekend last week to get everything done. She said she was at least hoping for one day off. That was at the end of week one.

Is this normal now? I worked hard for my first undergraduate course but it was nothing like this. I did actually manage to have a life while studying.

I dread to think what it's going to be like when we have essays and exams.

I think the first few weeks can be quite bonkers and then it can settle down a bit. But guess this can depend on the course….but normally peaks and troughs.