Scottish University’s- importance of Advanced Highers

[Fiftyplanner]

Hi,

My DD is in S6 and has 5 A’s at Higher. She is now sitting two Highers and an advanced Higher in S6, plus doing various extracurricular committees/ work experience/DofE, and wants to study Politics at Edinburgh or St Andrew’s. Her school are pressuring her to do a further Advanced Higher in Geography as apparently Uni’s place a great weight on it - does anyone know if this is true or if it’s the geography dept’s vested interest? As we all know the last year was incredibly hard for them and she wanted to have a less stressful academic year, given on paper she already has the entry requirements for both her course choices. She’s emailed the Unis but awaiting a reply. Her school careers dept are minimal help also.

Thanks!

In my experience for most course they only put a great weight on them if you are taking them! They are only essential for some courses - I think medicine expect advanced highers. Or if you are looking for second year entry. I wouldn’t have thought for politics an extra advanced higher would be key, I think the universities your DD is interested in would expect a personal statement to be the differentiator.

If you look on the websites of all Scottish universities, their entry requirements are based on Highers.
There are only a very small number of courses, such as medicine, which may give an offer based on AH results even with 5As.

With 5As at Higher your DD will more than fulfil the academic entry requirements for a Scottish university and should receive unconditional offers. If she wants to go to English uni then she will need AHs.
I know 2 people who've just started at Edinburgh doing science subjects this year who had unconditional offers based on their 5As at Higher.

It is usual in S6 to take 3 subjects. I would not advise a 4th. Tbh the reason the school may be suggesting another AH is, for kids of your DC ability, it's more common to take 2 AH and one Higher rather than the other way round. But both should be fine.

What you should be aware of though is that both Edinburgh and St. Andrews put a cap on the number of Scottish students they will accept on very popular courses, in order to get the higher fees from English/overseas students. So your DD may still find it very competitive to get into not because she doesn't have the grades but because she is a Home student.
Edinburgh certainly publish their offer rates for all courses so you can search that.

Good luck to your DD

I know they say not essential as offers made on highers. However lots of 5A students don't get offers from St A so school probably thinking that more AHs in S6 would make your DDs application stronger. DD managed 4 subjects (3 AH and 1H) in S6 plus captain duties and a part time job. Although I suspect if she had exams she would have had a meltdown by June. She found AHs useful for uni (Edinburgh) as most subjects start at Level 8 which is a jump from Highers (level 6) and you have to take outside subjects so already having an AH in an outside subject makes for an easier pass.

Would your DD switch one higher for AH geography?

Thanks everyone, that’s really useful. I know St Andrew’s restricts the number of U.K. students but didn’t realise Edinburgh does too. I’ll check if Glasgow and Strathclyde do.

She is doing Higher Politics and Higher History, plus AH RMPS. She could maybe swap higher History for AH Geography but I don’t think it works in the columns. She won’t drop Higher Politics as it is relevant, and she enjoys it. She had planned to do AH Modern Studies but school can’t facilitate it. She has to take 4 subjects so her fourth is a vocational skills for life one.

As someone mentioned the importance of the personal statement, she’s been focusing on extra things for that like Prefect, Charities committee, Scottish Youth Parliament, DofE and a part time job and 4 Highers/AH would tip her over the edge.

The cynic in me is telling me the school advice is geared towards getting more A grades for their league tables rather than what my daughter actually needs for Uni!

Fiftyplanner places are restricted at Scottish Universities for Scottish students. Not for other applicants from the UK, this is for all Scottish Universities. The consequence of 'free' tuition provided for Scottish students.

As @Bratnews said, places for Scottish students are limited at Scottish Universities - each university is allocated a number of Scottish places by the funding council and they have to meet that. With grade inflation in the last two years, many more Scottish students meet the entry requirements (including 5As) and the universities can't offer more places than their allocation. I'd say that if your DD can do 2AH and a H, it's worth considering. High demand courses need a way of deciding how to allocate places when faced with many more students meeting entry requirements, so some have been using conditional offers for S6 exams, when they have never done this before. Previously, 5As would have been enough for almost all courses for an unconditional offer but this is not the case in the past year. Difficult for universities and awful for students. Good luck to your DD!

Thanks, I didn’t realise that all Scottish Unis have limited numbers for Scottish students. I understand the predicament Unis are in re the higher grades being awarded over the last two years, and the fact that a greater number of students have deferred this year, so concerned they might ask for certain requirements in S6. There’s also the fact that if DD changes, she’s now got almost 2 months of the course to catch up on. Lots to think about.

Thanks again all, you’ve been very helpful

They all cap Scottish students @Fiftyplanner however some universities will take more international and English students simply because they have way more applicants from outside Scotland.

The 2 you mentioned are the main ones. St Andrew's has a lot of American and English applicants.
Edinburgh is very popular with students from England.

Aberdeen doesn't have nearly as many applicants from England simply because it's so far north!

IIRC Strathclyde has a lot of students from west of Scotland.

I work at strathclyde ..I know in our dept the advanced higher is much the same as the first year classes

This is because we accept people with highers so they have to start at advanced higher level to cater for everyone

It does make a big difference in certain subjects. I know of students who did AH languages who felt that they would have really struggled if they had only done Higher.

I think it's the mix. After S6 your daughter will have 7 highers but only 1 AH. That's quite an imbalance. Breadth but not depth.

My experience, kids who do well in S5 go onto do either 3 AH or 2 AH and 1 Higher - often a second language.

At the school I work at we expect pupils to do 4 subjects in S6. In terms of academic progression I think that is better as they continue to work at a pace and, if doing AHs, at an increased level which will prepare them better for Uni. Better to learn to work at that level when in S6 and at home without all the social aspects of Uni . Makes for an easier transition.

I would add the advanced higher and drop Duke of Ed and the less relevant higher as a minimum. Top universities are more interested in academics than unrelated extracurricular.

My DCs school will not allow just 2 highers and 1 advanced higher in S6. As a rule they recommend three (or even four) advanced highers or two advanced highers and two highers/one higher and one Nat 5.

Even two advanced highers and a higher is not allowed/recommended.

They say it's to give the most able kids the best chance of an offer.

Five As at higher is unfortunately more common than it used to be (due to inflated Covid grades) and entry to courses is more competitive than ever.

It's a standard state school.

My DC school only allow 3 subjects in S6 if it’s 3 AH. If you do 2AH you have to do 2 other subjects as well which is what DS1 did.

He had 4 unconditionals after 5th year (5 As at higher) but was rejected outright from Edinburgh to study law.

I read that the personal statement should be focused on the chosen course rather than extra curricular activities.

I would agree with everyones comments above. Just to say St Andrews do not do a politics degree so your dd needs to research carefully. As others have said universities are interested in why you want to study a certain subject, any reading etc you have done and what you learned. They are not interested in D of E head girl etc. All of this can be put in the teacher reference anyway.
AH, if school offer them, are more aligned to first year uni work so are definitely a good stepping stone. Mine are both glad they did AHs before starting uni.

Thanks everyone, lots of food for thought. I think we will request a meeting with school guidance for a steer. I am veering towards her dropping one of the Highers and keeping 2 AHs plus her vocational Nat5.

A lot of her extra curricular is course related ie youth Parliament, working with a local MSP, helping her Modern Studies teacher with the younger classes, so I am sure that will help her personal statement for a Politics course.

The course she is interested in at St Andrew’s is International Relations, which I know is even more over subscribed, so she is managing her expectations.

There was an FOI request on the admissions for St Andrews International Relations course, breaking it down into Scottish / rUK / EU / International application numbers, offers and acceptances for the last few years.

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/admissions_statistics_for_intern

Stats are here:

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/700160/response/1675707/attach/html/4/Appendix%20A.xlsx.html

If you mention applying for/interest in 'politics' in a personal statement and you apply for 'international relations' at St Andrews then that is the most common reason for rejection. I went to an admissions talk in 2018 so this comes from the horse's mouth. They want to see absolute commitment towards studying international relations.

@Aurea sorry, I don’t understand what this means - you need to evidence that you have relevant experience/ demonstrated interest such as further reading re international relations or that your personal statement should only be tailored towards studying international relations and not politics?

@Ekofisk Thanks so much for the stats

Sorry if I didn't make this clear. The personal statement should only be tailored towards studying international relations - for St As anyway. They want to be seen as the first choice course and not an afterthought or backup to politics (which they don't offer).

@Aurea Thanks, makes perfect sense now.