Oxford or Cambridge advice and help needed.

[Puffalicious]

Hi all,

My DS is thinking of an application to either Oxford or Cambridge. He is very academic (Scotland, National 5s 8 at A band 1, Highers 5 at A band 1. Presently sitting Advanced Highers and additional Highers. He was school dux). He has been told by school (state) he will sit assessments locally but apart from that we are pretty much in the dark about which colleges to apply to and what the differences are. His dad and I went to universities in Scotland and it's very different.

Can anyone shed light on this? Or sign post me where to find the information? He will be applying for Mathematics.

He will also apply for universities here as he's not sure about the whole Oxbridge experience. He's very into music, gigs and DJing and wonders if his fellow students there would be like minded. Can you choose a college with more state students? Can he apply and defer like you can at other universities?

Thank you so much. His statement is due next month, so we need to get a wriggle on.

Thanks chill I'll get him right onto that.
Thanks wbeezer he is a very cool kid, just trying to get the right fit for him.

Malbecfan that's definitely a brilliant port of call. In the end he might stay in Scotland/ Glasgow but equally he might take a year out (travelling across Europe in a camper van ending up in Ibiza is super attractive to him right now. I can't blame him, he's his mother's son).

Thanks for all the advice.

Most maths students do have interests other than maths - but when it comes to admissions, they'll be interested in the maths and not what a well-rounded person you are.

Don't worry about him only just being 18; there are often younger mathematicians. Probably fewer than in my day, as the state sector is less inclined to let pupils skip a year, but probably still some.

Indeed lanthanum when DS interviewed for Oxford all the candidates were talking about one of the colleges where a 13 year old girl was being interviewed. (No help to op at all, but I was interested anyway!)

Wee bit of an update. Both Oxford and Cambridge had their online open days today, which he attended. He got good info about colleges. It seems that a rugby team and a decent percentage of state students are his top requirements.

Oxford was particularly useful as a live session concentrated on the MAT. A professor took them through a past paper; it's a regular thing he can log on to as well. He really enjoyed it and identified some areas he's not covered (Higher Maths in Scotland is quite different to A level) which hos teacher will go over with him after school in the next month.

He's not sure where his heart lies but it's good to keep his options open. He does love his city and is keen to stay (many more kids do this here in Scotland in the big cities) but still not sure.

Thanks for all your input.

Sounds useful! One good thing about online 'open days' is it must make it a heck of a lot easier for more prospective students to participate, especially those who don't live near the particular unis. I hope they carry on doing them in addition to real life ones in the future.

Errol I completely agree.

I've encountered this maths higher v a level problem as well. Basically, lots of top maths students in English schools study the whole maths syllabus for a level in lower sixth (fifth year) which is very different to the higher syllabus and then have advanced maths a level on top in upper sixth. He might find the STEP preparation pages that Cambridge host useful in trying to build up on what he doesn't know if school is struggling to support him (although my understanding is that most of the A Level content gets covered in AH Maths papers in s6 so it might just be a timing issue).

Toomuchis I think you're exactly right- the AH will cover all Alevel maths and more. It is, indeed, a timing issue, which won't be an issue for STEP but perhaps for MAT. School are great- he's known his Maths teacher since S1 and he's going to help. He was the Dux this year and got the Maths prize, so he's certainly Oxbridge level, just depends if they understand the possible gap and give him an interview.

Good luck to him. I see someone's mentioned that some places don't like students to take a year out before doing maths - I've heard of this too from a wider range than just Oxbridge I think. So if for any reason deferring university made sense he'd need to have a robust plan as to how he would be keeping his maths up before he started.

(DS will be applying next year, starting to talk about maybe maths, so I'm polishing my antennae :) )

Hi OP. I wouldn’t go into this with preconceptions about “private school students.” What is the image you have in your mind here? 80% of students at Oxbridge are from state schools anyway. But even this is misleading because a high proportion of ‘state school students’ will be from grammar schools and there’s only about 100 of them in the U.K. So what does that tell you?

People come from all around the world. Applying from Scotland shouldn’t be too hard to navigate.

Anyway, they are keen on Scottish students if possible because they have certain criteria to fill in the yearly admissions statistics - ie, ‘in 2022, we admitted x% more students from Scotland / Wales / NE England.’ A very high proportion of applicants apply from London or SE England, so they are trying to balance the stats.

Have a Google of ‘Cambridge Admissions Statistics’ and you can see all this for yourself.

Good luck!

Also, I think if you’re going into this it’s just useful to remember that most if not all applicants will have their school’s maths prize. All will have a full set of A*. What they are looking at is what you have done over and above the school curriculum (in terms of your subject). So I don’t know what maths-types do, but I’m sure there’s competitions and allsorts. The more he can do the better and it helps the personal statement.

Typed a message and lost it!
Essentially, Oxford not at all keen on deferrals - the year ds applied they granted only 2 and last year only 3. Likewise Cambridge (I know this as one of dh friends is a Prof of Maths at one of the colleges).
Would your ds take the MAT anyway even if he decided on Cambridge? It is (in theory) designed to test only the Y12 (lower 6th syllabus) though ds said he was glad he had done Olympiads and taught himself a few 'extras'.
Lastly, there is good information about admissions here
www.merton.ox.ac.uk/sites/default/files/inline-files/Maths%20JS%20Admissions%20Feedback%202021.pdf
with information on scores and interviews.
Best of luck! It's nerve-wracking

Thank you, all, for your comments and ideas. He's not one for competitions and such like. Dux means that he got the prizes for all 5 of his subjects and had the best results for all his exams across the entire school. He's very bright naturally, he does no work, annoyingly.He's into rugby, playing the drums, climbing mountains and going to as many gigs as possible! If they're looking for well rounded he's their man. If that's not what they're looking for, so be it. I keep telling him it'll be their loss as they'd be lucky to get him as I don't want him freaking out about it all.

It's not really nerve-wracking as if he decides against it or doesn't get in it's not going to ruin any life chances. Similarly for deferral, if he wants to pause, go travelling, whatever, and the chosen university don't like that he'll find one the next year that doesn't mind. He knows he can do the Maths with his eyes shut, always could.

He will sit the MAT no matter what. He liked the Oxford professor who took them through the past paper on Friday and will attend each week until the MAT.

Thanks for all your interest.

He sounds great - but Oxford are not looking for well rounded! DS was only asked one very basic question in his interview that was not a mathematical problem (it was about his 4th A level). He put only one sentence in his personal statement that was not about Maths. He is a very good Mathematician (Olympiad 2nd round level) but has to work 8-10 hrs a day to keep up with the volume of worksheets given.
Best of luck whatever he decides.

Huashan it does, indeed, sound tough. It's sounding like it might not be the best fit for him, but we'll see after his statement is in and the MAT. I don't want him being somewhere that's not him just for the prestige. It's good to have that perspective. Thanks.

Puffa has he looked at St. Andrews? He might need to commute to Dundee for gigs though they did have a music festival for freshers week. It tabled above oxbridge this year in the Times.

My son is also going to apply to Oxford for maths. He’s still working on his personal statement and we are going for a visit on the way back from Warwick open day. He’s also going to look at St Andrews, and Edinburgh, we are going to do a self tour and just get a feel for the place

He is a very good Mathematician (Olympiad 2nd round level) but has to work 8-10 hrs a day to keep up with the volume of worksheets given.

There are two aspects to this OP, admissions and then what is right for him after. Is he a good enough mathematician to get in - he may well be from what you say and certainly should give it a go.
If he does get in then then he should n’t be put off from that post. How much work he has to do will depend not only on his mathematical abilities but also his priorities. He may well decide that taking part in the other great opportunities that Oxford or Cambridge university life has to offer outweigh trying to aim for the best possible marks he could get from his degree. Basically he can shape his own experience from what is on offer and many other students will be of his type.

I read that Newgirls. Interestingly, I brought up St Andrew's/ Edinburgh again recently, but we've been to St Andrew's as a family and despite liking it (and his uncle went there) it's not where he wants to be for 4 years. His cousin, my niece, started Dundee this week and he feels it's ' too week.. Similarly, he loves Edinburgh to visit but doesn't fancy it because 'the clubs are all gone'. He's so funny but knows what he wants.

He's at a gig tonight in the iconic Barrowland for the first time and I've never seen him so buzzing.

A lovely post sendsummer thanks. That's definitely forefront of my mind- as of what I just said above. He got 100% in his first Advanced Higher test this week- without much revision, so I don't think it'll be ability, more what he wants. A very kind and useful post.

'Too wee' not too week!. Dundee is small, I'll give him that.

Very true they are tiny but so are cam/ox. It’s hard to tick all the boxes isn’t it!

Forgot to add - the music dept at St. Andrews is amazing. Very swish. Not sure how many fledgling bands though - might need to be London and big city unis for that

Yes Newgirls it's a real balancing game. The music scene in Glasgow is phenomenal, so I think that's pulling him too . Last night after the gig there was chat about travelling in South America. At least it's lovely to see the world open up for them again.

Thanks for the advice.

If he’s considering Oxford and thinking about colleges then I’d recommend looking at Mansfield. It’s fairly close to the maths department (and even closer to lovely uni parks), has a very high state intake and provides accommodation for all 4 years so he wouldn’t have to worry about private rent. Their rugby team is joint with Merton.

There are lots of other great colleges (and IME everyone loves the college they end up at) but it was the college that first sprung to my mind when reading your posts

That's brilliant Always great advice and much appreciated.