Applying to Cambridge with two A-levels at A* and an A. Is there any point?

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Hi, I know there is a wealth of uni application experience on here, so I’m asking this in my son’s GF’s behalf as she needs to make a decision soon....

She has her A-level results now - A History, A Economics and A French. She also has an A* for EPQ (history-related which is what she would be applying for).

If she applies to Cambridge for History, does she, in reality, need all three A-levels at A ? I know they say you can apply with anything over AAA as predicted grades, but as these are achieved (ie that’s it), is an application a waste of time.

Someone told her that over half of all successful applicants have three A*. If so, her chances would be in the lower half and therefore a significant disadvantage from the off?

We had a Google ... in terms of UCAS points, an A-level A is worth 56 UCAS points. An A is worth 48 points. But an A EPQ is worth 28 UCAS points (so half an A-level at A*).

Would her EPQ mitigate the ‘dropped grade’ for the French A-level?

Also, she was told by a teacher that it’s harder to get A in MFL and less are given out every year than in say, Maths or sciences. Marking of humanities subjects and MFL will always be relatively subjective and therefore a greater margin for error. This is why STEM subjects at Cambridge ask for 2xA, but most humanities ask for A*AA. Is this the case?

Thankyou. I should also say, she has done a lot of supra-curricular stuff inc. a prize in an international essay competition and various other things besides this, so her PS writes itself. I’m helping her as her mum’s English isn’t great. Thanks!

Are they interviewing this year? That can tip the balance.

Its worth a shot. Most people who apply don't get in, so unless she would be devastated and her life ruined forever if she didn't, I don't see why she wouldn't apply.

It can also depend on her school - if she is at a very academic private school, they're more likely to look for 3 A*s than if she's at a state school.

absolutely 100% apply

Well, if she doesn’t apply she won’t get in, will she? What’s worse than being in the lower 50%? It’s being 100% guaranteed not to get in.

What’s the harm in her applying?

The Cambridge standard offer is 2x A* and an A

So yes, worth applying, but for many courses she'll also need to pass their own entrance exam, and interview well.

Also, what will she be putting on her personal statement to give evidence of interest in history - participation in events (online in the covid years), competitions, clubs, relevant volunteering etc.

Definitely she can apply but be aware there are entrance tests and work to be submitted even before an interview invitation, so she may need support to facilitate this. Will the school continue to help with preparation?

Yes, definitely apply. They did interviews this year they were just online ones, no in person.

If it is History she is applying for then www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/history have a look at this. There is always an entrance exam and more often than not submitted work where she sends in examples of her work. All the links to all the information about what each college wants is on that link above.

There is an Oxbridge Aspirants (Oxford or Cambridge) thread every year on here, pop over onto that, lots of History applicants so loads of information.

The deadline for Oxbridge or any other "competitive" entry so medicine, dentistry, veterinary etc is 15th October for UCAS.

Info on HAA here:

www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/courses/history

(And my apologies for last part of earlier post - it looks as if she has the makings of a strong personal statement)

Yes they will be interviewing, but online probably.

The other thing is, her school told them that the Teacher Assessed grades would be 100% based on formal exams this year. They did three sets of formal exams in March, April and May. They gave out the marks in these exams with the A-level results the other day. Her average in the French was very high - over 90%. In the oral she got almost full marks, as well as the written paper. She showed me this in the day. So she asked the MFL Dept where the grade boundary for the A was and if she had just missed it. They said there is no grade boundary , but they gave her an A based on a “checklist.” We don’t know what this checklist comprised of. But surely, over 90% achieved in formal exam conditions would be an A in an MFL in a normal year?

She is going to appeal but they are dealing with priority cases at the moment.

Why bother to publish the marks achieved in the exams, but then say they didn’t really count? Yet they don’t specify exactly what did count or how they calculated the grade.

Despite all the talk about grade inflation this year, it does not seem to be the case at this school and there were loads queuing for the priority appeals as they have missed their uni offers.

It's definitely worth applying, OP. Cambridge won't only look at exam results, though obviously they're really important. I don't think they're that interested in ucas points tbh. Showing a genuine interest in and aptitude for the subject will also be really important, and it sounds like the essay prize etc will be good evidence to support that.

There are never any guarantees but it's worth a try if she wants to. It's lovely that you are supporting her and I'm sure she appreciates it.

Thankyou. She has a lot of written work and she has been invited to Oxford for a conference / prize giving ceremony as one of her papers was shortlisted in an international competition. She couldn’t believe it.

I think she is leaning towards a gap year anyway due to family circumstances.

Written work submitted has to meet specific criteria, usually marked examples as part of A level work. Ime a slipped grade cannot be compensated for but she meets the standard entry requirement anyway. Did she apply to Oxbridge previously, does she fulfil any of their diversity or inclusivity categories?

Friends of my children who applied and were accepted had something extra to offer such as one was in the national youth orchestra and one was a champion badminton player, their personalities were also what you’d call super confident.
If her school is not in an affluent area they may take that into account and drop the grade boundary a little.

@TheBurmundseyIndustrialEstate

Friends of my children who applied and were accepted had something extra to offer such as one was in the national youth orchestra and one was a champion badminton player, their personalities were also what you’d call super confident. If her school is not in an affluent area they may take that into account and drop the grade boundary a little.

Just to counter this, I studied at Cambridge and most definitely wasn't super confident, and neither were many of my peers - some were, but it isn't a prerequisite.

I didn't have any amazing extracurriculars either.

Lots of both dds friends are/went to Oxbridge. Her grades are good, she should apply. History is a very popular subject but as she’s doing well at relevant extra curriculars they should help her stand out. Wishing her success!

Definitely worth applying. I started at Cambridge in 2013 with 4 As and A EPQ despite the standard offer being AAA at that time - you don’t need all A*s to be in the running.

Well 25 years ago they would make offers for AAB if they liked you at interview. If they didn’t like you, no offer at all.

@TheBurmundseyIndustrialEstate

Friends of my children who applied and were accepted had something extra to offer such as one was in the national youth orchestra and one was a champion badminton player, their personalities were also what you’d call super confident. If her school is not in an affluent area they may take that into account and drop the grade boundary a little.

Cambridge do not take into account extracurricular activities unrelated to the subject. They also don't take personality into account.

They refer to the selection process as 'holistic' but in reality they look at:

• Grades
• Evidence of interest in subject beyond curriculum
• Admissions assessment / submitted work
• Interview: ability to engage with the supervision process which is the basis of teaching

OP: It sounds as though she already has the first two of these, so I think she could make a competitive application if she does well on the last two.

Fantastic results there and the world is now her oyster.

A few of my sons friends tried for Cambridge and all had fantastic grades - however its still a very closed shop and they felt as though their face didn't fit when they went for interviews there.

Also, other university professors have said that Oxford & Cambridge tend to be ridiculously competitive throughout the courses and not a really pleasant experience for most students.

If she wants to apply - go for it. Buts its not the 'be all' for students.

That doesn’t tally with my experience at all @Felix125 - I went to a comprehensive school and there were a huge variety of backgrounds and personalities of people when I was there. I’m not sure in what sense they can be considered competitive either since they don’t grade on a bell curve. They are definitely a more intense experience than other universities though which isn’t for everyone - terms are shorter but more work is crammed into them, and the supervision/tutorial system means more scrutiny of your work during the year.

My son & daughter are at Newcastle Uni. The students on the courses tend to have networks (watsapp groups, get together etc) where they will help each other out with various assignments and course work because they all want each other to achieve.

What they find with people at Oxford/Cambridge is that there isn't this willingness to share and help each other. The students there want to be the best in the class and they will stand on others to do so and be the best in the class (maybe not that strong but in essence that's what they are doing)

And this was confirmed by a retired prof from Liverpool uni who we spoke with. His two daughters are at Cambridge and are finding this out.

It might be different for different course - i can only comment on medicine & law as this is what my two are doing

And if the OP's daughter wants to apply - then go for it. I'm just saying that it can be quite competitive among the students.

My son & daughter are at Newcastle Uni. The students on the courses tend to have networks (watsapp groups, get together etc) where they will help each other out with various assignments and course work because they all want each other to achieve.

Sounds like some of them may be at risk of academic misconduct allegations to me. Assignments should be their own work, not shared endeavours... unless it's groupwork of course.

No - I don't mean they are collaborating in assignments

So, if they have had a lecture and one student just didn't quite follow the topic. They can then post something on Whatsapp to say "Anyone else struggling with this today".

They will then receive a number of helpful posts from their fellow students on the course with tips & guidance and how they assembled it all together in their mind.

@Felix125

No - I don't mean they are collaborating in assignments

So, if they have had a lecture and one student just didn't quite follow the topic. They can then post something on Whatsapp to say "Anyone else struggling with this today".

They will then receive a number of helpful posts from their fellow students on the course with tips & guidance and how they assembled it all together in their mind.

Fair enough, but I don't know why you would assume that this kind of mutual support doesn't happen in Cambridge or Oxford. It was pretty normal in my experience for people to share lecture notes, useful resources etc. I wonder what your kids are basing these assumptions on?

Students at Oxbridge aren't some kind of separate super competitive species. For the most part, they're just ordinary young people who happen to be particularly good at academic stuff. There is the same range of personalities that you would find anywhere - some very competitive, some not; some very collaborative, some not; some very confident, some not. I don't think it's helpful to perpetuate the stereotypes that suggest oxbridge students are uniquely competitive or confident as it potentially puts off ordinary kids who might otherwise do really well in that environment. I doubt that your kids at Newcastle really have that much of an insight into what goes on in other institutions, so they're probably basing their assumptions on very limited information.

Of course Oxbridge isn't the be-all and end-all. My eldest wouldn't have entertained the notion of applying, though he'd have been fine going through the selection process. It just wasn't for him. But if OP's son's GF likes the look of the courses on offer at Cambridge, and thinks the teaching style would suit her, there's no reason why she shouldn't give it a go. Her chances are as good as anyone else's.