A level subjects for Cambridge

[usedtobeboss3]

DS starts sixth form in September and is trying to finalise his A level choices. He is keen on applying to Cambridge - course yet to be decided, but probably Modern Languages, or possibly Psychological and Behavioural Sciences. I know that facilitating subjects no longer exist in the way that they did, but some colleges refer to things like 'keystone subjects' which are effectively the same - and recommend that no more than one A level should be in subjects other than these. Two definite choices for A level are Music and Spanish - the third one could possibly be History, Psychology, English Lit, or English Lang. Am I right therefore that Psych or English Lang could jeopardise his chances, given that Music isn't a 'keystone subject', and therefore making two 'other subjects'?

To be honest, I think he's got it backwards. He really needs to work out now, or in the next year what he would like to study, then choose the best university for that course.

Your DC has to decide which A levels they really want to study before stressing about Cambridge. Excellent grades and potential are most important.

My DD's bf has just graduated in MML from Cambridge and has A levels in German, Latin, Greek and History; he did the older syllabus exams before the reformed ones came in. Because he doesn't have French or Spanish, Cambridge wouldn't accept him onto their PGCE for MFL teaching, so he is going elsewhere.

I supervise the EPQ and currently have a student who learned Welsh from scratch and produced an artefact. Her UCAS application was not directly related to this, but should she have a change of heart once results come out, it would stand her in really good stead for language work. Her firm offer is 2 grades below the institution's standard offer, which is most pleasing.

I've only experience of dd doing an EPQ. I'm sure it helped get her a nuffield placement, both were in a related field, which in return helped her get her first summer placement and from there her next, etc. It also taught her some very valuable skills in how to write a report, independent research and the such like. All very useful skills.

I agree with @OhYouBadBadKitten that choosing the subject needs to come first. The Cambridge MML course is quite literary - it's not uncommon for students in English Lit to 'borrow' a course out of MML, and the teaching style is very, very similar. I think English Lit would therefore be good preparation, but I would also worry that someone who isn't sure they want to do English Lit at university simply might not very much enjoy the way Cambridge teach languages.

I find the emphasis on wanting to go to Cambridge over an immediate single minded passion for one subject slightly odd. A given for Cambridge is a single minded passion (yep horrible word) for the subject.
Find that passion then find a proper selection of universities to cater for it.
Oxbridge in and of itself shouldn't be the aim. If I'm reading your OP wrong forgive me, but that's how it comes across

Some students, including those who are extremely intelligent will never find a single passion because so much interests them. That's fine, they need to find a course that most closely matches their some of their interests, wherever that course may be. If they are fortunate enough to manage it, perhaps overseas.

I would avoid English Lang and Psychology and go for History or Eng Lit. If he’s serious about applying for Languages he should really do more than one at A level language subject.

Ok - it's not so much an emphasis on Cambridge, more not wanting to automatically exclude it as a possibility by choosing the wrong subjects now. The other reasons that Cambridge has a particular appeal is that he's very interested in choral scholarships too. I know that there are many excellent university courses out there - and choral scholarships in other places too - but it would be a pity if he chose subjects now that meant Cambridge was out of the question.
Thanks to everyone who has offered advice - we'll be contacting some admissions offices in the next few days!

@OhYouBadBadKitten

Some students, including those who are extremely intelligent will never find a single passion because so much interests them. That's fine, they need to find a course that most closely matches their some of their interests, wherever that course may be. If they are fortunate enough to manage it, perhaps overseas.

Those students might be well served with some of the excellent Combined Honours courses which are about in places like Durham and Exeter.

@usedtobeboss3

Ok - it's not so much an emphasis on Cambridge, more not wanting to automatically exclude it as a possibility by choosing the wrong subjects now. The other reasons that Cambridge has a particular appeal is that he's very interested in choral scholarships too. I know that there are many excellent university courses out there - and choral scholarships in other places too - but it would be a pity if he chose subjects now that meant Cambridge was out of the question. Thanks to everyone who has offered advice - we'll be contacting some admissions offices in the next few days!

I'd get your child to do it. Please don't be the filter. DS went to Cambridge. No brainier for him. Loved English, excelled at it. Applied for a variety of universities but given his ability obv shot for Cambridge. MML at Cambridge is a rare beast from what DS's friends have told me. So if get your child really delve into that - it's not like any other languages course in the uk as far as I can tell

A given for Cambridge is a single minded passion (yep horrible word) for the subject.

No, it really isn't.

Btw, I know Cambridge doesn't do joint honours as such, but it gives quite a bit of flexibility. In addition to things like choral scholarships that let people pursue a non-degree interest at a high level, Cambridge can let people swap papers across some triposes and change tripos after Part I (for example, you could do linguistics after a Part I in MML).

For modern languages 2 languages would be better, and for PBS a science subject or maths is good, but if not history or literature over language or psychology. Music and Spanish aren't well targeted at PBS though.

@SarahAndQuack

A given for Cambridge is a single minded passion (yep horrible word) for the subject.

No, it really isn't.

Btw, I know Cambridge doesn't do joint honours as such, but it gives quite a bit of flexibility. In addition to things like choral scholarships that let people pursue a non-degree interest at a high level, Cambridge can let people swap papers across some triposes and change tripos after Part I (for example, you could do linguistics after a Part I in MML).

I'll rephrase It makes life a lot easier!

I've had students go to Cambridge to study another subject with Music A level. It wasn't a problem.

I really don't think it does.

I think most successful students have lots of interests and most Cambridge arts/hums courses (maybe science; I wouldn't know) are actively set up for that. They are big wide courses where you draw on lots of different ideas. If you go around saying 'well I came here to study MML so I don't want to think about linguistics/literary criticism/philosophy/history' you will come across as a narrow-minded pain to teach. Of course, if you get there and find you really have a guiding passion for music and spend all your time in the college chapel instead of writing your psychology essays, that's a bit different. But I would say having wide academic interests is a definite plus.

I have one DD who has just graduated from Cambridge (Nat Sci) and is about to return for a PhD and one at a non-Russell group uni who is a very good singer. DD2 (non C) went to visit her current uni when she was given an unconditional offer following an interview as she wasn't sure whether or not to accept. Because singing is really important to her, she contacted the Director of Music at the local cathedral to ask about choral scholarships there and ended up singing for him when we were there. He said that most cathedrals offer choral scholarships, unfortunately more to tenors/basses than sopranos, so please don't feel that only Oxbridge offer this opportunity. Indeed, the C daughter didn't have time to commit to a choral scholarship as she also wanted to do sports. She does sing in a college choir, getting the formal dinners and experience, but had the time to row and dance too.

He needs to either pick a degree and work backwards or do his favourite/best subjects and go for a degree that fits them.

This. The two possibilities are very different and impact on his best combination of a levels.

Is his school not giving him guidance?

Although formally it might not be an issue, informally at Cambridge things like English lang and psychology aren't seen as 'real' A levels. He needs to do a more 'traditional' A level. My credentials - a couple of degrees from Cambridge and I'm there at the moment.

Malbec Nat Sci is a wide choice subject isn't it for those not ready to narrow down their subjects to quickly?

Maths sort of is I guess if you are struggling between maths or theoretical physics or some other sub speciality. But it's a weaker case to argue and I'm only putting it out there because I'm procrastinating from decorating.

If they’re still available he should watch the subject talks from the Cambridge open day a couple of weeks ago. Ds was convinced he was applying for a particular subject but having attended the various talks has realised its not quite right and so is now looking at a different (but similar) course.

@OhYouBadBadKitten lol, DDs' head of 6th form insinuated that people who study NatSci are people who can't make their minds up - I think he's a prize tw*t. My experience is that students can pick their personal choices under a wide umbrella of possibilities.

The reality is that they study 3 subjects plus Maths in y1, then 3 in y2, specialise in y3 but they can add something extra in. During that time, DD has specialised in Materials Science so has done the equivalent of 4 years in that PLUS the extra Maths, Chemistry and whatever else she did in y1/2. Apparently NatSci graduates are highly employable but as she's staying on, I can't confirm that.

Some DC are given shockingly poor advice about ALevel choices - teachers sometimes seem more focussed on the sales pitch for their subject.

DSs friend is an oxbridge hopeful and has just announced she’s changing her A Levels to Drama, Psychology and English Language (from English Lit, economics and history) I’m not sure how this got through the sixth form approval process at school. It’s clearly not a complete barrier but it certainly isn’t going to smooth her path.

As a Head of Sixth Form it is not my job to approve the subject choices of students. We can offer broad advice but if an applicant comes to us wanting to do Drama, Psychology and English Language it wouldn’t be appropriate for me to try to talk them out of it. I can say “Are you sure? Your original choices would give you more options for uni.” But if they tell me they still want to change then there’s no way I would say no.

I think there’s definitely an element of truth in teachers wanting to promote their own subject though although I try stay neutral on mine (history) when advising as Head of Sixth Form.

Having said that, some people have very strange ideas about the advice that we should be giving. Students really should be guided, first and foremost, by what they are interested in and are good at. Very high grades in subjects they love are likely to open doors to degrees that they will enjoy and do well on. I can’t tell you how often very bright students come to me and say “I want to do economics at university” and then when I suggest A Level maths tell me they hate maths and it’s their weakest grade. The correct advice in that situation is not to tell them to take maths, it’s to tell them to go away and do a bit more research as an economics degree is probably not for them.

I think economics is a really tricky one. You could have a child who gets an A* in economics A level who still can’t get onto most economics degrees because they didn’t do maths A-Level. It’s even harder because its one of those that is a new subject for A level and so they won’t discover their love of it until they’ve started their A levels. I think it should really be one where if you do economics A Level you are also made to do maths A Level (in fact I actually think all students should have to carry on maths to some level in sixth form, even if it’s just core maths - but that’s the subject of a different thread)

I agree Eng lit or history.
He will need to ditch Music and choose psychology if he wants to be open to both degrees I'd say.

But Spanish, history/eng. Lit. Are important in what DD was told were facilitating subjects.

She did Eng lit AS. History, politics and Spanish A2.

She has majored in foreign language literature as that has become her passion but historical context is her particular interest. So History or Literature for MML.