Oh god - here we go again... Dd back at uni 10days and already many

[a8mint]

Dd back at uni 10days and already 2 Of her friends are having to self isolate. Luckily they have all tested negative so far

@phphion
The open university has provided much more than the bricks and mortar universities have this year for a third less fees.

Is anyone on here doing an OU course, or have children who are?

@IntoAir @phphion
You readon yu are finding the 'attacks' on universities this year tiresome, is because their position is indefensible!!

[quote a8mint]@phphion
The open university has provided much more than the bricks and mortar universities have this year for a third less fees.[/quote]
Really?
How can you possibly know that? There are 180 HE institutions in the UK teaching tens of thousands of courses between them.
There are very few people (if any) who can confidently say they know the ins and outs of how all of these universities and courses have delivered their courses this year.

The thread isnt about every university. I am responding to a specific comment about how my dd should be grateful to her (top) university 's offering this year.
I imagine very few unis this yearhave charged only £6k for their online offering

@a8mint

The thread isnt about every university. I am responding to a specific comment about how my dd should be grateful to her (top) university 's offering this year. I imagine very few unis this yearhave charged only £6k for their online offering

But you made a very generalised comment about the OU providing more than bricks and mortar universities. If you mean one university then specify that because otherwise you just piss off those of us who have worked our arses off this year.

Not all universities have a provided poor teaching and learning experience this year and it's unfair to suggest we have.

Spot the difference:

than the bricks and mortar universities have this year

'attacks' on universities this year tiresome, is because their position is indefensible!!

Then:
The thread isnt about every university.

You fooled us! Clever you.

All universities have to provide income and expenditure data to the Office for Students, DfE, and external auditors every year using a transparent activity-based costing system (which I outlined to you @a8mint). They cannot claim to have spent time and money on things they have not done / provided.

This is how information such as the extent to which universities spend more on UK students than they get in fees from them comes from.

If universities, individually or collectively, are found to have not spent fees income on things like teaching, they will indeed have to defend it.

It is not about how much money universities have spent.
You can't, in any other field, offer a lesser product and charge the same price because your organisation is having a bad year financially

@a8mint

It is not about how much money universities have spent. You can't, in any other field, offer a lesser product and charge the same price because your organisation is having a bad year financially

If your university has offered you a 'lesser product' ( although you aren't purchasing a product- but that's another debate) then complain.

Not all universities have delivered less, in fact many have done more this year. I know I have.

Universities have still had to pay staff and have had to invest in costly IT infrastructure. Universities aren't making loads of money at the expense of covid. Most have lost a significant amount of money - hence mass redundancies.

@a8mint

It is not about how much money universities have spent. You can't, in any other field, offer a lesser product and charge the same price because your organisation is having a bad year financially

I'm still paying the same for my gym membership, even though classes are at a reduced capacity and lots of it has been only available online...

But yeah - it's not a 'lesser product' - you might not like the way the 'product' is delivered, but the reading, learning, and assessment are the same. You might not like the fact that in between receiving your 'product' there's not as much fun to be had, but that has been - guess what - the same for everyone in the country.

It has been just as expensive - in fact, more so, to provide tuition this year. I'm sorry for those of you who had poor experiences, but our department offered as much f2f as possible in semester 1 as well as a mix of syncronous and recorded lecturers. The requirement for pastoral support rose exponentially. I don't usually speak particularly highly of our SMT, but they invested heavily in making the campus "covid secure" - temporary lecture theatres, perspex screens, heavy investment in IT etc. as well as ongoing costs of staff and building maintenance. They also lost money on halls (refunds) and general hospitality earnings. It wasn't the same - no-one could pretend it was - and students may indeed rightly feel they haven't had value for money. But this doesn't mean universities are making money on the situation - far from it. If students are to reimbursed that money needs to come from Government as most Unis really can't afford it.

[quote a8mint]@IntoAir
Please can you explain how £9250 to churn out 6 hours of ropey prerecorded videos per week requires subsidising. I'll wait....[/quote]
Clearly not doing a STEM course then. DD has had far more hours of lectures than that, plus seminars and lab practicals.

Sigh. I'll bite.

Leaving aside whether they're 'ropey' or not - I don't think mine are and I'm sure your dd's lecturers don't think theirs are - six hours of prerecorded lectures are massively more work than six hours of lectures you'd deliver in person. And some people might describe those in-person lectures as 'churned out' too, of course.

We had to prerecord because so many students didn't have good enough tech or wifi to tune into a live lecture.

Prerecording takes HOURS, because you don't just say the lecture, you edit it, put the CC on it, upload it, trim it, try to make it as tidy as you can which isn't something you were ever trained to do.

So do you think we should have had our salaries cut while we did more work, thus saving some fees?

Err… we didn’t do ANY pre recorded lessons where I am.
Everything was live and recorded at that point so the students who had issues with internet etc… could watch afterwards.

Why make things more difficult for yourself there??

We did both pre recorded and live online sessions- both of these increased my workload significantly.
Any on campus teaching I did had to be re-worked too to accommodate social distancing.

This has been the toughest year of my career (especially when you throw in homeschooling a 6 year old) and reading the absolute vitriol aimed at academics really hasn't helped with my mental health.

I never understand these arguments. Parents say what a rubbish time their kids have had, a few Uni staff come on saying how many live lectures and f2f sessions THEY have done. Parents say that's not their kids experience. But are shot down as causing mental health issues to Uni staff.
It's great that some Unis have done a good job. A lot haven't. They've been shit. One medical school has an average of 46% for year end exams. Usually about 60%. Either this year are particularly academically weak (never have been up to now) or the teaching has not been good enough. Personally I'd like a doctor who knows their stuff and not learned it over Teams.
My vet DD has not set foot in a lecture theatre or tutorial all year. That's her experience. Uni told them they were continuing on line in Sept as no had complained ! No, because there's been a pandemic and they understood it was necessary, but not in future. Not fair, not what students want (no one ever asked them) and not best way to learn. Sorry but I do believe f2f is best.

PS I really would suggest not reading MN if struggling with mental health. It's never going to make you feel good (as a teacher I stopped reading when it seemed everyone was OK with us all getting ill).

@RampantIvy Clearly not doing a STEM course then. DD has had far more hours of lectures than that, plus seminars and lab practicals.

STEM includes Maths. My son is doing a Maths degree and has had no face to face teaching at all. It's ALL been online, right from last October when Unis "could" have done face to face teaching, but his didn't. None of his lecturers nor teaching staff have even set foot on campus throughout the year - they were instructed to work from home. So no Maths students have received any face to face teaching at his Uni and the entire Maths building (inc lecture theatres) has been left empty, locked and abandoned. (He can see it from his Uni flat - staff car park empty all year!).

I've no doubt that some Unis have done well and provided lots of F2F teaching, and, as per these threads, there've been some staff who've gone above and beyond. But that's not the case across the board. You're not going to get lecturers coming on here to post that they've not put the effort in and have just used recordings of prior years' lectures rather than making new/live ones, are you??

mumsneedwine
I've seen your posts on previous threads. I've seen academics try and engage with you, offer explanations, offer suggestions and most of all their extensive experience of working in the sector.
You refuse to acknowledge that any university or academic has done anything of worth during this last year and constantly berate academics for not delivering f2f even when the government told us not to.

I know at least one academic has deleted their account due to these types of thread and the impact it was having on their mental health. Unfortunately you contributed to that - I reached out with a private message and you were mentioned.
Before you start your vendetta again please remember we're humans and the vast majority of of us are trying our best in very difficult circumstances.

@TheDevils nice. So me commenting on the rubbish time MY child has had caused someone else mental health issues. I'm sorry but that is ridiculous. And bullying. And vile.
I have always said some have done a great job, but my child's not had that experience. So should I not be allowed to talk about how her mental health has suffered ? How her experience has been all on line ? So her experience counts for nothing ?
Nice caring post.

Durham now surge testing as so many cases. Uni has given free accommodation until out of isolation. I'll sad as they had so much planned to make up for lost time.

[quote mumsneedwine]@TheDevils nice. So me commenting on the rubbish time MY child has had caused someone else mental health issues. I'm sorry but that is ridiculous. And bullying. And vile.
I have always said some have done a great job, but my child's not had that experience. So should I not be allowed to talk about how her mental health has suffered ? How her experience has been all on line ? So her experience counts for nothing ?
Nice caring post. [/quote]
Nobody has ever said you can't complain. In fact, pretty much every academic that has engaged with you has agreed that your daughter has had a poor experience. You've been encouraged to support to your daughter to complain and had the complaints system explained to you.
Pretty much every academic has agreed that some students have had a poor experience- nobody is denying that.

I've lurked on these types posts for a while and ive seen your comments . In my opinion there have been times when you have been unnecessarily rude and unfair.
Most of us are happy to engage in a discussion about the challenges of the last year but people need to be willing to listen to our side too.

Sorry, I should have been cleareer - we did plenty of live stuff too, and some smaller lectures were live and recorded, but my point is that pre-recorded sometimes had to be the way, and it wasn't shoddy or churned out.

@mumsneedwine I too believe face to face is best. I also believe no pandemic is best. What are you going to do?

@TheMerrickBoy personally, I've been teaching f2f for months. In crowded unventilated rooms. Hundreds of students every week. Weird how it can be done in schools. Yes I know Unis are different, but no f2f all year is poor. Especially now us oldies are fully vaccinated.
Sorry if people find it hard to hear but SOME Unis have not provided good provision. And some have.