Standard of work for this years Uni intake - is it lower?

[Eve]

.. DS who is finishing year 1 and has struggled with standard of Uni work and in particular what is required for written work in terms of structure, level of research etc due to little interaction and guidance with tutors and others on his course.

One of his lecturers made the comment that there is a noticeable drop in standard of work from the 1st years this year, just wondering if any others have students who struggled or what Uni lecturers have found?

If there is a drop in standards - have any Unis made plans on how to help students catch up?

This year's freshers had massive disruption to their A levels last year, so of course there will be a drop in standards. I can't see universities dumbing down their degrees, but I don't know what the answer is.

We queried some harsh marking across the cohort in one module and the scores are around 5% down in that module this year... waiting to see if it'll be moderated back up as it was definitely a consequence of it being online and so much harder to get a handle on concepts. I'm easily top or there about of my uni cohort, very good at things like academic writing (it's a second degree for me) and I've found this year bloody hard just because of it being online and the way interaction is inevitably somewhat different.

DDs course has added an additional compulsory module to help catch-up. Scope to do so as outside subjects studied for first 2 years (Scottish degree).

Standard of delivery generally lower too so not surprising standard of work has gone down.

It would hardly be surprising if there was. It's impossible to learn as well remotely as in person.

My gut says yes, but also year groups do vary - every so often you get a bunch with plenty of very able students, and then one without quite as many, so I don't know how far to trust that instinct.

In terms of catching up - there may well be some kind of scaling at your DS's university, in the short term. Longer term, I don't know what the solution is other than to keep teaching as hard as we can and give constructive and specific feedback. I can't see students being particularly keen on remedial sessions to cover what they might have missed. I don't know, it's tricky.

However, many of our older students have said that if anything they feel they've had more interaction with tutors this year, so I don't think it's that. But attendance, on the other hand, has been much lower, and I'm certain that many students just weren't there to hear us tell them what they needed to do to pass. I have definitely seen a lot more work suffer this year just through failing to follow the brief than usual.

Tbh, the issues mentioned in the OP don’t sound related to learning online, delivery or lack of contact with tutors.

Struggling with academic skills such as essay writing, paraphrasing and referencing are really common, particularly amongst students who took maths/science A levels. This kind of thing would not normally be taught as part of the course. I remember having to figure it all out for myself back in the day.

Most unis do provide help and guidance though, often through library support services or through a language/ac skills centre. Students need to be proactive about getting support if they need it. Often domestic students don’t seem to realise/bother, but I’d suggest your DC take advantage of whatever help is on offer.

TheMerrickBoy , my DS2 is in final year and had a lot of interaction with his tutors - but hes had 3 years to build that relationship and knows them well enough to have conversations, approach them etc. Much harder for 1st years who are worried about asking 'stupid ' questions which is my DS1.

I do think just being given instructions on how to do something is really difficult, even something that is straightforward is open to so many interruptions.

@Eve - yes, totally - I think it's been much easier for students who already know us. I cited them because they have something to compare it to, whereas the first years don't, if that makes sense.

@Eve

TheMerrickBoy , my DS2 is in final year and had a lot of interaction with his tutors - but hes had 3 years to build that relationship and knows them well enough to have conversations, approach them etc. Much harder for 1st years who are worried about asking 'stupid ' questions which is my DS1.

I do think just being given instructions on how to do something is really difficult, even something that is straightforward is open to so many interruptions.

I agree. Some students haven't had any opportunity to physically meet any of their lecturers/tutors etc. Not even in small group tutorials. At my son's Uni, none of his lecturers have set foot on campus this year at all. It was nearly all online even in the months when F2F was allowed. He's only had a couple of F2F tutorials in the entire year, both of which were run by random phd students who he never had any contact with before and hadn't had any contact with after. By never having met any of his lecturers, he's not at all confident to "talk" to them about problems etc, especially not in the online group sessions. Hopefully at least next year there should be a lot more F2F with teaching staff which may help to break down the barriers.

That is really difficult, @user1497207191. I hope he feels confident asking for clarifications when he sees them next year (fingers crossed).

I think there are a lot of things that have led to the situation OP mentions - a difficult end to year 13, a stressful time for students (and everyone) this year that's meant their heads aren't always where they need to be, general messaging from government and SM that anything online is bad and you can't be expected to do well at it, anxieties around Covid, isolation, lockdowns.... I really hope it's better for all of us next year.

Dd seems to have coped really well with her course (online) and touch wood should achieve a 1st in her first year. She did comment that there was a online lecture/seminar a few weeks ago on revision techniques etc for forth coming exams run by the Head of department... she expected it to be well attended and just 4 people logged on (400 students on the life science courses) and that some lectures have had under 50 percent viewing...

I think students have not adapted well to online learning..

I think students have not adapted well to online learning

Sounds more like the university tutors have not adapted well to engaging students online. Some students will always be lazy, and others need face to face to learn effectively, but the rest just need to be engaged.

I wouldn't be surprised. If that entire cohort was like last year's y13 in my school, they will hardly have done anything remotely resembling work since mid-March 2020 before going to uni. It's hard enough motivating myself to work in school holidays (hence procrastinating on here), so after more than 6 months, there is bound to be regression and a dip in standards.

I really hope it's better for all of us next year.

@TheMerrickBoy (and indeed any other of the wonderful uni staff who take the time to post on this board) - I'd echo the sentiment.

but

with those due to start in the Autumn and who, if coming direct from Y13; have had fifteen months of disrupted education; do you anticipate the problems outlined by the OP being yet more prevalent?

Allied to this is there an unease about a proportion of those starting perhaps not having made as informed decisions about destination and course as in previous years? - given lack of open days; likely more limited sounding boards through sixth form etc.

@boys3

I really hope it's better for all of us next year.

@TheMerrickBoy (and indeed any other of the wonderful uni staff who take the time to post on this board) - I'd echo the sentiment.

but

with those due to start in the Autumn and who, if coming direct from Y13; have had fifteen months of disrupted education; do you anticipate the problems outlined by the OP being yet more prevalent?

Allied to this is there an unease about a proportion of those starting perhaps not having made as informed decisions about destination and course as in previous years? - given lack of open days; likely more limited sounding boards through sixth form etc.

I imagine they will, yes - hard to see how the 21 intake won't have been affected by the last year. As always, hard to be certain - you never know when a stellar cohort will emerge and when they'll be harder work, even in normal times!

Informed decisions.... I'm not sure. There may be some who've actually thought more about than they usually would, since we've all had a lot of time to mull things over this year! I'm sure there'll be some who are just desperate to be anywhere else than home, too. Our open days have obviously had to be online, and they're not well attended (understandably), and that will very likely make a difference in terms of what new students are expecting and what they're informed about.

Sorry that's all vague - I've learnt not to try to predict with too much confidence! I imagine we'll be mandated to offer lots and lots of extra academic tutorials, but I have no idea whether they'll be attended, as we can't make anyone show up to anything. Based on this year, I wouldn't be confident.

There was also the grades fiasco last year, with some students getting places confirmed who in a normal year would have got cut after A level grades came out.

I think students have not adapted well to online learning

Some universities/lecturers/tutors havn't adapted well either. My son is doing a dual honours.

For one subject, the teaching and admin has been absolutely spot on, he's had clear instructions/guidance from day one, work is marked quickly, good feedback, really good "live" online lectures with lots of opportunity for asking questions etc.

The other subject has been the opposite. A lot of the "lectures" were re-runs of last year's lectures recorded in lecture theatres, with the "lecturer" making a brief 2/3 minute appearance "live" at the start to introduce the lecture, and then disappearing. Apparently that went down on the system as a "live" lecture!! Work/assignments has been taking weeks/months to get marked. An assignment he did at Easter still hasn't been marked. There was a lot of "online" quizzes/tests throughout the course that were automatically marked by the computer system, but the standard of those was appalling and a lot of the automatic marking was wrong. The Uni had "bought in" an online quiz/testing system and clearly hadn't checked it thoroughly - presumably cheaper to use an "off the shelf" system than create their own, but it's wrong to charge students £9250 when part of that is using a cheap/erroneous online system that would cost a student a fraction of that price.

As with everything else, different Unis have responded in different ways, some better than others, as have differing teaching/admin staff. Shame there's no way to ensure consistency of quality.

That doesn't sound good @user1497207191 - and I'm aware too of inconsistency across different sujbjects.

(I would say though that 'work taking weeks' to get marked is totally normal - 15 working days is usual, and some places get 20. Months is a bit different, unless it's a very long piece of work. Was there a date given when feedback would be available? And, forgive me, but is he definitely looking in the right place? Sometimes students chase feedback that's been there all along but they were looking in the wrong link. Ignore if not the case, just thought there was a tiny chance!)