Oxbridge/ Russell group and IB versus A'levels

[PersonalAssistantParent]

We are trying to support DS in his choice of choosing A'levels or IB. He is a great all-around, determined, and hard-working student.

His school has a great reputation for the IB. However, he is leaning toward A'levels at the moment. If he continues on the way he is I think he would have a good chance at a place in a great university.

Has anyone else been in the same situation with choosing between the IB and A'levels? How did you come to your decision in the end?

It really depends on what he’s interested in, and likely to want to do after uni?

They are different but I do think the IB students are better prepared doe Uni and work as they are used to managing a huge workload.

Does he want to study 6 subjects in sixth form? Depending on the intended course at Uni some will require particular highers anyway. To me IB is like doing 4.5 AL and in addition you need to do the Theory of knowledge, extended essay and community service.

My eldest chose AL as he didn't want to do a science or a language a minute longer than he had to. My second one attends an IB scholl and will likely stay there for sixth form.

I don't know how well known IB is in UK despite several schools offering it. For example if you look at a particular subject - the grade requirements are consistent between Unis. But there may be a vast difference between IB requirements.

DS1 and DD have attended the same school for 6th form. DS1 did A Levels because he really did not want to do a language or English in 6th Form. Instead he did 4 A Levels (Maths,Chemistry, Physics and history) and is now at Oxford reading Chemistry.

DD is at the same Sixth Form but taking
IB and will apply for Medicine next year. She opted for IB because whilst she is very good at Biology and Chemistry she is a bit of an all rounder and loves French and English. She also really likes the Theory of Knowledge course.

Neither is a bad choice. I think it's wise to consider carefully what their post 6th Form choices are likely to be to make sure their choices keep options open. The coursework for IB is a bit of a slog although it does mean 'points in the bag'.

That said, we also have DS2 who needs to make his choice! Currently going for A Levels but that could change!

@sandybayley, Interesting to read your DD’s experience of IB. My DD is also an all-rounder and I suspect the IB might have suited her well if it had been available. She ended up taking A Levels in Biology, Chemistry, Eng Lit and Psychology alongside Grade 8 in Flute and Piano. Luckily, Oxford overlooked the odd subject mix for biosciences (and the lack of A Level Maths!). She didn’t have many course options though at other high tariff universities so it was a highly risky, ill-advised strategy.

I think my daughter's school offered a choice. She took A levels which was best for her even though she was equally good at all subjects. It is just easier to concentrate on 4 in lower sixth than more for our family we have concluded. Here we are for her school www.nlcs.org.uk/senior-school-sixth-form/international-baccalaureate

I was delighted to drop to 3 A level subjects in my day so I think it just depends on the person. My son's girl friend did very well with the IB.

At this stage, I think he wants and needs to keep his options open re uni. He enjoys most subjects and we had a very hard time dropping some for GCSE with the exception of geography. All of his subjects have the same predicted grades, so it is hard to see where he is strongest. His favourite subjects are probably maths, computer science, Latin and whilst English is not his favourite subject, and he says he doesn't really want to do it in 6th form, he has won a few English awards at school and gets great marks and feedback for this and so it wouldn't be a struggle for him.

I did the IB (some years back now) as I grew up overseas and went to an international school. I loved being able to continue with a range of subjects all the way through school. And the UK universities were able to give offers for IB students that made sense. If anything, they were easier to meet/required lower marks than you might have expected for the universities in question.

@Himawarigirl - that's true about the offers for IB. Even the very highest offers at IB rarely go above 40 though they might specify 7s in specific HLs.

@PersonalAssistantParent - is computer science an IB option at your school? DD's school doesn't offer it.

A levels.

Also, is the school independent?

Yes, independent.

I don't think computer science is in the IB at our school which is a shame as it is one of his favorite subjects and would be a possible choice for A' level.

I work in admissions for an RG University. If your son goes down the IB route and there is any chance that he may study comp Sci then bear in mind that a lot of RG universities ask for an A level in Maths or equivalent.

For the IB, that equivalent is Higher level Maths (either stream) and not standard level. For many universities, comp Sci at A level (or IB equivalent) isn't essential but HL Maths is.

I only mention this because I've seen many extremely capable students without HL Maths and there is nothing we can do ....

Good point @SallyOMalley and worth noting that HL Maths seems to be hard, harder than A Level Maths. If you're choosing a course that needs / suggests maths but you're not a strong mathematician you might be advised to go for the A Level route.

This is part of our thinking with DS1, the courses he's interested in either need or benefit from Maths but HL Maths would be a stretch.

In DD's school it's almost 50/50 split IB/A levels and it doesn't seem to impact on outcome of applications to the most sought after universities.

Your DCs' school is pretty much in a class of its own sandy. That helps. The tendency has been for the IB to be over tariffed and given the way the political wind is blowing with independents in general in terms of top uni admissions it might well be smarter at more ordinary independents to stay mainstream and stick to A levels.

Obviously not saying this DC's independent is more ordinary! it might be the same one as yours!

One of my DDs chose IB, at a state sixth form college before doing medicine. Loved it. Loved the breadth, the teaching style, the links between subjects, the emphasis on presentation skills and independent research. TOK was a struggle. All the coursework was pretty stressful but ultimately enjoyable and worthwhile. CAS stuff she'd have been doing anyway, so no extra work for her.

Different tariffs for some unis for IB made it a bit complicated (e.g. Manchester medicine had 776/AAA , most others 666/AAA). She didn't get the points she needed for her offer (needed 38, got 36) but got in anyway as she had the right HL results so in the pecking order was ahead of people who'd dropped a grade in A level.

DS was torn between IB and A level, and in the end went for 4 A levels because he didn't fancy doing the foreign language options available and wasn't keen on continuing with English. Having said that, the English was SO different from GCSE-style English and I think he'd have enjoyed it if he'd tried it.

As others have said, be wary of IB maths, esp if maths is the biggest determiner for selection in your choice of degree. HL maths seems to be nearer Further Maths A level, but most unis don't seem to give credit for that. Even for strong mathematicians who've sailed through GCSE, SL maths is often the one that lets down their overall grade, because it's seriously hard but you just don't have enough time to devote to it as your HL subjects have to take priority.

I'm not convinced it makes a huge amount of difference in terms of university admissions. My school offered both IB and A-levels. I did IB, my DSis did A-levels. We both ended up at the same university.

I think the IB is a great qualification and offers a much more rounded education than a-levels, but it wouldn't suit everyone. I would just let your ds choose which one would suit him best tbh.

See I have heard the same about HL maths which is why I didn't understand when I was told it wasn't as highly regarded as further maths AL.

@chopc - if you want to do a maths degree at a sought after university the advice (from our school) is to do A Levels and take Maths and Further Maths. Cambridge, in particular, seem to prefer candidates who simply done more maths. HL Maths is hard and high level but because it's one of 6 subjects there's just not as much time spent on maths.

@paralysedbyinertia

I'm not convinced it makes a huge amount of difference in terms of university admissions. My school offered both IB and A-levels. I did IB, my DSis did A-levels. We both ended up at the same university.

I think the IB is a great qualification and offers a much more rounded education than a-levels, but it wouldn't suit everyone. I would just let your ds choose which one would suit him best tbh.

Totally agree. In our gaff, we don't favour IB students over those with A level. Both bring their own merits to the table.

I teach IB English. It's a heck of a lot more fun than iGCSE/GCSE - you get to do much more interesting texts, with a fair degree of autonomy re which you use for written & oral coursework, & the final exam. Mostly even the super science-y kids genuinely enjoy it - so I wouldn't avoid IB to avoid English!

Can confirm the Maths thing. Ds has just swapped from Analytics to Applications (he got a decent GCSE centre assessed grade last year, but hadn't actually done any maths to speak of since March '20 because of sodding covid, & was too lazy to make the effort to catch up). He's having to re-think his Uni options as a result, but tbh this is no bad thing as he's now more interested in a couple of subjects he's begun at IB than in Comp Sci...as a course it's certainly broadened his horizons.

He's also busy teaching English to local kids (we're at an international school overseas) for CAS, which has done wonders for his organisational skills & confidence.

@CorvusPurpureus - I've been pleasantly surprised by IB SL. DD is studying a really interesting range of texts. Much more varied than the A Level syllabus. She studied Therese Raquin before Christmas and is now doing Uncle Vanya. Plus a really interesting Filipino poet whose name escapes me.

I think the benefit of IB is the breadth of education it brings. For DD I suspect her next step will not be impacted by the fact she chose IB over A Levels but the experience and insight she has gained will be the difference.

My DD is enjoying her IB (at a state school), though had to get up to speed on time management! her average days consists of 7 lessons, some are shorter, but she leaves at 8:15 and rarely gets home before 5pm (20 mins cycling commute).

Make sure you fully understand the other core elements of Theory of Knowledge and also CAS (creative/active/service) which get less mention than subject choices. The first is an additional essay subject that I would probably compare to Philosophy, and the second is a defined requirement of extracurricular activity. See if the school offers any support with organising, we've been struggling with finding volunteering opportunities in a a pandemic! It's useful and I'm fully supportive, and it has pushed DD out of her introverted home habits but it's hard to fit in on top of the school work.

We're currently looking at universities and they all seem to understand very well how the IB is structured, and the differences in the maths strands when specifying entry requirements (DD is looking at Maths / comp sci for Uni so HL Analytics at 6 or 7 is usually required).