Changing everything apart from the city!!

[Unidilemma]

Hi - am a regular user who has changed her name for this as it’s a bit outing.
DD is in first year of a sciences-based degree at a Russell Group uni. She has struggled with learning online etc, but is on course to pass the year which is all she needs to do at this stage.
She has also had an interest in Art for years (did it for gcse but not A level). She got an 8 i’d say she is good, but not super- talented if that makes sense. It’s a serious hobby for her.
Anyway, to cut a long story short she wants to change to an Art-based degree (art/design as opposed to fine art). She can’t swap at her uni as there’s no room
So she will have to do a foundation at another uni in the city and then (if she gets in), start degree in 2022.
Apart from the fact there’s no guarantee she’ll get onto the degree in 2022 and also being two years’ behind (she’ll be in her sibling’s year), the cost of having an extra two years to pay towards, will be horrendous!
She is due home this w/e and we have to have serious chats and almost pre-empt what she’ll say which will be:
I’ll get a job/use savings
I don’t mind being two years below (she’s young for year anyway and her DB has already said he won’t go to same uni!)
I don’t want a job in science so what’s the point of a degree in it (and we will say it’s just a degree at the end of the day, which will
Open doors even if you want to do something different).
Half of me wants her to pursue her dreams and the other half says wtaf, finish your current degree and then think about taking off in another direction. Currently she doesn’t really know what she specifically wants to do either which makes it even more uncertain.

She is also adamant she wants to stay in current uni city, has house share for Sept etc.

Any words of advice, people who’ve been in this position etc (I’d be more ok if she could swap degrees than effectively go down a level to a foundation and then reapply).

She'll have to make sure she'll be covered for tuition fees for the extra years, especially if she will have to do a foundation year.
1 year already done and then four years (including foundation)?
My understanding is that tuition loans are only available for four years (unless medical, veterinary, dental etc). Could well be wrong but worth checking.

Don’t encourage her to continue a Sciences degree if she doesn’t love what she’s doing. It gets more difficult every year and you have to love it, you cannot coast on a Sciences degree.

It’s also a waste of time and money, far better for her to do something she’s passionate about.

However there’s probably a better way for her to go about swapping.

@drivinmecrazy

She'll have to make sure she'll be covered for tuition fees for the extra years, especially if she will have to do a foundation year. 1 year already done and then four years (including foundation)? My understanding is that tuition loans are only available for four years (unless medical, veterinary, dental etc). Could well be wrong but worth checking.

I’ve looked into it and you are fine for 4 years, but next year if she does the foundation she’ll need to get a different loan for fees and support herself as won’t get maintenance. She will be very in debt!

Science based degrees are hard and if you hate what you're studying, you are unhappy and have no motivation.

I started off with a Science based one. I completed my first year (foundation year) but when I started my second year I realised that I really really didn't enjoy the research side of it (statistics and the like) and knew that the third year would just be even harder.

I managed to transfer within my uni to one that was much more suited to me, but had to retake a compulsory first year module alongside my second year ones. Making the decision to change degrees was one of the best I've ever made.

@MyGorramShip

Don’t encourage her to continue a Sciences degree if she doesn’t love what she’s doing. It gets more difficult every year and you have to love it, you cannot coast on a Sciences degree.

It’s also a waste of time and money, far better for her to do something she’s passionate about.

However there’s probably a better way for her to go about swapping.

Yes, if she could’ve swapped degrees then it would’ve been much more straightforward. I wouldn’t say she hates her degree - but it must be worse doing it online which I’m sure has contributed to the wanting to change. Not sure how else she can swap and stay where she is (she wouldn’t want to start again in a new uni/city - she has friends etc). It’s a tough one!

She will be in lots of debt but she's young and has years to repay it.

If she stays on the science track, despite knowing that it's not what she wants to do, then there's the risk that she'll become demotivated and just drop out. She'll still have debt, but nothing to show for it.

@EggyPegg

Science based degrees are hard and if you hate what you're studying, you are unhappy and have no motivation.

I started off with a Science based one. I completed my first year (foundation year) but when I started my second year I realised that I really really didn't enjoy the research side of it (statistics and the like) and knew that the third year would just be even harder.

I managed to transfer within my uni to one that was much more suited to me, but had to retake a compulsory first year module alongside my second year ones. Making the decision to change degrees was one of the best I've ever made.

Great it worked for you! Unf the degree she wanted to swap to was oversubscribed so she didn’t even get a chance to apply. She doesn’t ‘hate’ her degree but doesn’t see the point of doing it. Not sure if she’ll carry on with it if she doesn’t get on the foundation (she’s def applying for it - there’s space - but not sure if she’s submitted portfolio yet).

It’s very difficult doing it online (I’m doing mine now, I’m in my second year) and it’s horrible, despite staff being amazing, it’s just not the same as being in the lab and lecture theatres. I’m 34 and introverted so I can’t imagine what it must be like for teens.

There is a huge jump from Y1 to Y2 and another one to Y3, I’ve managed to maintain my GPA (fuck knows how with 3DC at home!) but I really, really love what I’m doing and so it’s easy for me.

eggypeg that is very true. Would be worse if she dropped out next year as then funding would be f*cked.

I'd encourage her to finish the year so that she's got her CertHE to show for the work and encourage her to consider the compromises she needs to make to be able to do the Art one.

EggyPegg I think she’ll finish the year. I didn’t think she’d get qualification though as it’s the first year.
She’s got labs today & tmw so will be interesting to see how she feels after the first in-person teaching the whole year 😆

MyGorramShip it’s great you’re hanging in there esp w 3DCs. I’ve found it difficult to speak to DD ‘virtually’ about it all as she has been back in halls since early Jan. Once the initial novelty and excitement of her being home is over we’ll talk about practicalities, how she really feels about science vs art etc.

What does she not like about current degree? I would say it's difficult to tell with it all being online.
Also has she spoken to anyone at the art foundation course, shown them her portfolio, they may have suggestions as to whether she'd be able to get on the course.

If she doesn’t like what she’s doing she should change. No point in carrying on something that makes her miserable and potentially ending up using your finance up.

However , what if she doesn’t get on the foundation degree? What’s her plan then?

What is it specifically that she doesn’t like about her science course?

Is a gap year an option (working in uni city?) to make sure she’s on the right track.

ElMacchiato - she says she doesn’t want a scientific career any more so why is she doing the degree. I think it has been tough online and it’s hard to judge. She said it’s hard work (well, sure) and she doesn’t feel she’s academic enough (so not true, she got 2 As and A* in all scientific A levels and all 9s at gcse!).
She will be submitting portfolio for the foundation. Idk if she’s good enough as people normally take it after A level so they’re coming in at a higher level.

PastaandPizzaplease - all good questions and things I’ve thought of/asked too.

If she doesn’t get on foundation then she’s got choice of carrying on w science, potentially swapping to another degree or getting a job in uni city. I think it might be hard to do that but you never know! I know she wouldn’t want to come home, all her friends are at uni & she’d be miserable as sin.
I am def going to drill down more as to what she doesn’t like about her degree when she gets back.

Will she need to do a foundation? I know a student with Chemistry, Maths and History A levels with good predicted who has BA Costume Design type offers who has obtained her offers off of the back of the predicted grades, Art gcses but she had to submit a portfolio for consideration.

It may be that she could speak to the potential unis to see if that is a possibility?

Unf the art & design degree at her uni was full for Sept, even though you don’t need art a level, and the uni which she can do the foundation at, said she should do the foundation first. Unfortunately there doesn’t seem any way of starting a new degree in Sept.

Gap year? Stays in house share in the city but works to cover costs. Ideally working or volunteering in something art/design related to help ps. Build up her portfolio further. Maybe take an short art course at uni/college during summer or in Sept 21. And then apply for year 1 starting Sept 22, with an increased chance of getting in?

Dove0709
I think she should prob do the foundation if she’s going to carry on w art path and get in for 2022. She’s gonna be at home in hols and I’ve already signposted her to a few opportunities (luckily we live in London) that she can go for or get involved in.
She knows she’ll have to earn some money over summer and/or back at uni city in Sept. I think a p/t job and foundation are compatible plus she has some savings that she can use if necessary.

Unidilemma
If it helps my son changed his plans on results day last August! Went through clearing to get onto a foundation course in a digital arts type subject. Always loved doing art but not super talented at it and uncertain if he could make a career in it. He had the grades to go into year 1 if he could get together a good enough portfolio, but having not done art since GSCE he want to do the foundation to improve his basic skills, gain confidence etc. To date, no regrets at all. Loves it. Doing well grade wise and happy to spend all day during lockdown in his room doing work for his course because this is his passion!

He has a part time job but has been furloughed, however he could have easily worked whilst doing the foundation course, the workload is not heavy by any means.

I think you are right to establish why the u turn and make sure she isn’t just reacting to these unusual times at Uni.
But if she does still strongly want to switch courses I would do all I can to help her. At the end of the day this generation is likely to be working until they are almost 70 so I don’t think there is any rush to hit the workplace and I think it is important as others have said that she plans her career on something she thinks she will enjoy rather than sticking to a plan she knows she is not happy with
It’s quite a brave step recognising she has made a wrong choice so well done her for doing so and coming up with an alternative

The career choice she’s going into pays poorly. She probably won’t get near paying off any loans! So what Eggy said probably isn’t relevant.

I think getting a job is really hard for young people right now. Can she realistically get a job and pay rent? Tall order I think. So the discussion needs to be had. Hard one though. Good luck.

Surely it is up to her to decide
Your job is to listen and support

Thanks all
She got on to the Foundation and will finish her first year of her current degree so at least she has that. She says she’ll also see if she can suspend the current degree too. Dh is particularly keen on this idea!!
As far as the money goes, she’ll try and get work starting in Sept. she doesn’t know what summer plans are but she won’t be around as long now as course starts 2 September.
Oh well, we shall See what transpires!!
Ooh I’ve also just realised I need to check when her tenancy ends - may not be an issue if she’s staying for undergrad but it may be if she moves cities...