Graduate Salaries

[Judy1234]

This from the FT may be interest - certainly was to me with three student children at once!

"Range of graduate salaries revealed by study

By David Turner, Education Correspondent

Published: November 6 2007 02:00 | Last updated: November 6 2007 02:00

A small cadre of elite graduates - about one in 30 men but one in 100 women - are earning more than £50,000 barely three years after graduating.

The numbers testify to the high rewards that can be earned at a young age by top graduates, particularly those who work in the City and related professions.

But the figures from the Higher Education Statistics Agency also show the huge range of earnings. This bears out work by economists suggesting returns on an undergraduate education for a tough course at a top university are much higher than for less famous institutions.

The figures show more than one in five male and more than a quarter of female graduates in full-time work are still on less than £17,500 a year 3½ years after graduating - well below full-time average earnings of about £22,000 .

Katherine Rake, director of the Fawcett Society, the gender campaigning group, said Hesa's numbers reflected the fact that many professions dominated by women, such as nursing, were underpaid. She also suggested women in high-paid jobs were handicapped by the fact that many were not "comfortable and confident about negotiating starting pay". Research shows men are on average more aggressive about clinching higher settlements.

Competition is tough for the highest-paying graduate jobs. The management consultancy McKinsey, for example, which does not disclose salaries but is known to pay high starting rates in return for long working hours, offers only about 30 UK places to graduates from among "several thousand" applications a year.

The survey, carried out at the end of 2006, covers graduates who finished their first degree in summer 2003."

I graduated in June.

It took me till OCt to find job adn it is not a graduate level one. Most of my friends are finding the same.

NOw there are two many graduates and not enough jobs. Not everyone is going to get one - I think I read something like 20% of students aren't going to get a graduate job.

I started my degree 6 years ago after mucking up my Alevels. I was told (which was correct at the time) that there was no point redoing them as they wouldn't matter once I got my degree. Well 6 years later they do. Alot of companies weed out applications in the first place by what Alevel results people have got (as they all have the same degree results).

I can't believe they are encouraging more and more people to go when tehre is no real benefit to them any more. Taking time out to finish my degree has actually harmed my employment chances, because I haven't been working for 2 years. I had better oppotunities working full time and not giving it up to finish my degree.

I would personally advise anyone going to uni now to be really sure that they need the degree they are going to do. TO make sure they get as high a mark as they can and to do plenty of other work plus volunteering and join societies/uni paper/radio station etc when there. Also to start applying for jobs and searching things out when you enter your final year (i.e. before you finish it).

Yes, I suspect Russell Group type university graduates with a 2.1 are in one category and were like the old graduates 30 years ago and then the rump from other places or with less than 2.1.

A lot of jobs like bilingual secretary/PA you could really do at 16, rather than go through to 5 more years A levels and graduate with £20k debt and then start. But depends on the career. My eldest the only one who has sorted out what she will do will start on £65k when she qualifies. Her friend wen to work for an investment bank right from university and started on £60k. But they have other friends working for magazines etc for very little too and a lot of people can't get any jobs.

Looks from the quote above that at the very least women should avoid careers dominated by women because that then means the pay is pathetic.

it starts in the public school system surely.

women wouldn't be able to break through because most of the uk's financial systems are run through the old boys network isn't it?

Not really. They are keen to have more women but it might be a class issue too - women with the right accents, A level grades, confidence and over all ability to deal with people. I think most HR people recruiting on the milk round at the better universities are aiming to get as much diversity as possible.

Xenia - I saw a friend this morning who used to be a bilingual PA at Chanel... she certainly didn't and couldn't have started at 16... She needed a degree and several years work experience to get her (very lovely) old job.

Hello Anna. Yes but a PA is a PA. It's at the bottom of the food chain, not something to boast about unless you're trying to pick up a husband at Chanel I suppose which is a dubious moral practice. If you are bilingual I don't see why you can't get your computer skills brilliant between age 14 - 16 and then work. I was chatting to a girl today who is 23 in a break in a meeting and was there to take the notes etc (so so low in the pecking order/ food chain she wasn't even introduced as there - of course some women I suppose love that no status thing but that's a different issue) and she had left school young and worked her way up and now at 23 was buying her own place, no student debt, nothing, just a very well adjusted woman and I really can't see why university etc would have helped her to be the efficient PA she was.

Unfortunately a degree is needed for jobs such as bilingual secretary, just scan the job adverts. The horrible part for most of us language students is that many people want someone who is bilingual and has a degree in another subject.

It is tough these days. More and more people going to university leads to far more competition for graduate jobs. Dp was very lucky and graduated holding 2 offers for good graduate training schemes and is now on one that pays fairly well. The usual pay for graduate schemes seems to be around £18,000 (includes people like PWC, civil service fast track etc) although some pay up to £36,000 (Aldi I believe) but will demand your every waking hour. Only in London can you find the top earners and even then you have to be bloody single minded to get there. Respect to those who do it. as for myself, when I graduate in June, I'm most likely going to be a SAHM, because I've done the maths and on £18,000 a year, it just isn't worth it once you've paid childcare!

I think there are PAs and PAs - the word covers a huge range of jobs - but certainly the woman I know (another mother at school) had a glamorous and jet-setting life when she was working, very far removed from the bottom of the food chain .

I also, come to think of it, know two women who were diplomats (so Oxbridge degrees etc) and became PAs to super rich international businessmen because they got fed up of the Foreign Office. Much better pay and conditions, and, crucially, much more interesting and varied jobs.

Yes, it s a sort of subsidiary service submissive role kow towing to men. Not what most women can stomach and you're always secondary. You don't own the equity. You aren't on the board. Nice little woman's career. And plenty of them use it as a springboard into the bed and indeed home of a rich man.

Glamour without power and wealth is quite hard to stomach. Many a young girl at Vogue and the like suffers huge unhappiness by being surrounded by those with plenty when on a paltry wage. Not a good way to personal happiness surrounding yourself by those who earn more.

"But the figures from the Higher Education Statistics Agency also show the huge range of earnings. This bears out work by economists suggesting returns on an undergraduate education for a tough course at a top university are much higher than for less famous institutions."

Sounds reasonable - it's harder to get into a good university (need excellent grades and supremo CV/personal statement), so it is reasonable to assume that the cohort is higher calibre all the way through.

"The figures show more than one in five male and more than a quarter of female graduates in full-time work are still on less than £17,500 a year 3½ years after graduating - well below full-time average earnings of about £22,000."

Again, sounds reasonable. The lower average salary for women graduates is not unexpected, as women are more represented in the 'caring' professions, which are traditionally lower paid.

Full-time average earnings includes everyone at every stage in their working lives. I don't think it would be appropriate for a relatively new graduate to be earning more than someone with 40 years experience in a blue collar industry, for example.

As for the other discussions on this thread. I have been in two major professions - engineering and teaching. I know that I have always been paid the same as males with the same skills and experience.

"But the figures from the Higher Education Statistics Agency also show the huge range of earnings. This bears out work by economists suggesting returns on an undergraduate education for a tough course at a top university are much higher than for less famous institutions."

Sounds reasonable - it's harder to get into a good university (need excellent grades and supremo CV/personal statement), so it is reasonable to assume that the cohort is higher calibre all the way through.

"The figures show more than one in five male and more than a quarter of female graduates in full-time work are still on less than £17,500 a year 3½ years after graduating - well below full-time average earnings of about £22,000."

Again, sounds reasonable. The lower average salary for women graduates is not unexpected, as women are more represented in the 'caring' professions, which are traditionally lower paid.

Full-time average earnings includes everyone at every stage in their working lives. I don't think it would be appropriate for a relatively new graduate to be earning more than someone with 40 years experience in a blue collar industry, for example.

As for the other discussions on this thread. I have been in two major professions - engineering and teaching. I know that I have always been paid the same as males with the same skills and experience.

Yes, I haven't noticed pay difference either and have always been good at asking for more pay. In one survey they were worried female MBA graduates were getting lower wages than men. They asked all 31 of them male and female about it. 100% of the women didn't ask for more pay than offered and felt they were lucky to be offered jobs. Every single one of the men asked for more pay than they were offered because they thought the employers were lucky to have them. Bit like that cartoon - slim woman looks in mirror and sees obese woman; fat man looks in mirror and sees Mr Universe.

Xenia - no, you're wrong. The women I'm thinking of made huge decisions and have a lot of impact. One is on several boards now, in varying sectors, including very high level academia and finance.

Xenia, what jo does your eldest do that she will start on £65k???!!!!

Meant to be:

Xenia, what job does your eldest do that she will start on £65k???!!!!

That's when she qualifies. I don't really like to write about them too specifically. The friends of hers on salaries like that include the investment banker who graduated and started on £60k but he had worked for the bank in most university holidays already and he's exceptional. She won't be on that until she qualifies into what she's doing but she has the job that leads to that unless she fails the exams in the mean time. It's a good start. Start on that and potentially earn £1m a year although most people don't make it through to that and many don't want that. But at least you have the choice. The risk though is you get used to a certainly lifestyle and money and it's much harder to drop down once you get used to that kind of money so it can for some people with mortgagees non working spouses school fees a bit of a trap unless you're brave. Even so it's a nice trap to be in better than the trap of earning the minimum wage cleaning the toilets at heathrow air port on the night shift. I'm more interested in what the next 2 at university might do and they don't seem to know either.