So my daughter wants to be an accountant

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I received so much help when DD1 was applying to Med School on here so I am wanted to pick some brains again.
DD2 (Yr 12) wants to become an Accountant. She wants to go to University and I wondering if anyone has DC currently pursuing this route or indeed any personal experience.
Any course/uni recommendations?
She is mathematical but wouldn't want to do a Maths degree. Studied Economics at GCSE but didn't want to continue to A level.
Currently taking Maths, Chemistry and History A Levels.
Is the Uni route a good one? It is so hard not being able to go to open days etc.

There's more than one type of accountant. For example financial account or management accountant. If she is set on uni look at doing a more rounded business degree. This can then be used to exempt from the lower level of CIMA for example. Many employers have, in my experience, been happy to take on bright ambitious people (degree would be a tick) and put them through their qualifications to accountant whilst working, paying for their fees. So essentially an apprenticeship.

But I agree with above that it's quicker to not do uni and go straight for an apprenticeship.

What appealed to DS was doing Uni half a year and placement half a year, and the placement wage covering his costs the rest of the year. Less debt.

Another accountant here saying don't do an accountancy degree - if she wants to go to uni she should do a subject she enjoys.
As a caveat to this, ds1's gf is currently applying for the PWC degree apprenticeship scheme which looks good.

We take graduates and non-graduates. They all go on an apprenticeship scheme now (basically because of the apprenticeship levy).
Over the years we haven't had many graduates with a relevant degree (and often they are a pain cos they think they know it all already!).

My ds2 is interested in accountancy, now I know about the degree apprenticeship scheme I'll advise him to look at that, but otherwise I'll be suggesting straight into an apprenticeship after a-levels.

As a chartered accountant of too many years standing (not big 4, but big regional) who recruits new entrants I would say:

1. Don’t do an accountancy degree. You will spend three years doing it at uni then three more years studying the same stuff for you training contract, and we’ll make you do the stuff you are technically exempt from anyway.

1. If I was starting now I would do an apprenticeship. You will qualify more quickly with no debt and the same training. In academic and professional terms there is no point in doing a degree if you want to be an ACA.

I'm a CA (ICAS qualified) and went with the traditional route of doing an accounting degree at uni. I graduated in 2008 and this was by far the most common route at the time.

Pros

• had a fun 4 years at uni
• being 21 when joining my first grad job meant I was old enough for all the Friday night drinks and DH (at another firm) and I bought our house
• exemptions from the TC exams at ICAS due to the accounting degree
• uni encouraged summer internships after 3rd year which ultimately led to my graduate job, and meant I didn't need to do the interview rounds during dissertation time

Cons

• longer route to qualification
• much of the degree isn't practical accounting so has little relevance to your job
• not applicable to me as I went to uni in Scotland but if you're down south then tuition fees will be a big consideration

By the time I qualified I was training school leavers who were doing the AAT route. It worked well for them and they all passed their CA but a 16 year old in a CA firm is a bit out of place at first and they struggled for a while as the age gap at that stage is very noticeable. It would really depend on the individual as obviously some are more mature than others at that age and have the confidence to deal with difficult clients.

Oh and on the degree subject, while it's not necessary to do accounting, in my year group of 15 there were only 2 "non relevant" - maths and law. At DH firm there was 1 - sports science and he dropped out after the first round of exams.

In my last firm, before I left the bright lights of audit, I was hiring the new grads and our point system for interview favoured accounting degrees. That was in 2018 so not too long ago.

Another accountant here (cipfa).

I did a history degree - great for analytical skills - and then joined a graduate training scheme at a local authority.

I’m a Big 4 accountant and interview for our graduate roles.

We don’t care what your undergrad degree
Is in - as long as you get a 2:1 all good. (I have a geography degree).

What we do look for in the interview stages though is good knowledge of what the job entails. So if she wants to do audit, read up on that, same with the different areas of tax.

She’ll also need a good understanding of the exam pathway and demonstrate she is capable of passing exams whilst working full time. Lots of extra curriculars at uni can show this.

Also make sure she has a business awareness for the interview - they’ll often get asked bea of case studies where you need to have a general awareness of the world to do well.

But for uni - recommend she does something she enjoys!

@AxCap

Of interest - for the firms which preferred to take on accounting graduates what was the size of firm? Did you get the impression that was unusual?

She should take a look at the Deloitte gap year scholarship scheme. You do 8 months of a gap year working in accountancy then get some funds to go backpacking with. They then sponsor you through university. My friend did it and really rated it.

Another person saying do t bother with an accounting degree. If your daughter really wants to go to university she should pick any degree she’s interested in. Some firms don’t like students taking exemptions from their professional qualifications as the skills do not really match up so accountancy degrees are a bit pointless in my opinion.

Interesting thread thanks Op. I am in the same situation with Ds1 and trying to decide on best route in. I did know about the different options. Just not sure which one is best for him. He's quite keen to go to Uni currently.

I'm so old I was one of the last years who didn't have to pay fees, so the thought of paying such huge amounts make me wince.

But my idea of the enjoyment of the whole Uni experience isn't what the poor current year have had! But it will be better in September for current year 13's presumably.

Plus I'd like to know what training is being given online for current trainees. Are they really enjoying it, bring stuck in their bedrooms on a laptop all day? It can't be like it used to be years ago. No going to the office, being trained by different staff, going out on different audits to different locations. All that isn't currently happening presumably?

@AxCap - that’s interesting, I’ve found the opposite. My large firm is heavily favouring apprenticeships and the vast majority of the graduates do not have accounting degrees. They prefer you are more rounded. In fact I can’t remember the last trainee with an accounting degree.

@jayritchie

The initial firms were large but not big 4 so think Grant Thornton, BDO, Baker Tilly (showing my age there though as they're now RSM).

The one which actively scored accounting degrees higher was a bit smaller but still a multi-office, national firm. By 2018 I did find it unusual to actually have it as a criteria, but most of their practices were a few years behind the larger firms.

However, there was always an underlying feeling of suspicion from some partners and managers I worked with that the person with the non relevant degree just wanted any graduate job rather than actively wanted to be an accountant. It was easy to work out during interviews though if that was the case as some would have limited/no knowledge of the CA exam structure, what the audit role would involve etc.

@TitusPullo that is interesting. Perhaps they've moved on more than I have given them credit for in the past 2/3 years!

Although I wonder how much is driven by the local office culture. In both firms I worked for there were huge differences between the offices, even those in the same region. You could easily pick out the Glasgow trainees vs Edinburgh trainees. Certainly Edinburgh also took far more non relevant degrees.

Firstly, I think your daughter needs to look into the different types of accountancy she could get into. The main qualifications are ACA, ACCA, CIMA (management accountancy) and CIPFA (public sector accountancy). There are also tax accountancy qualifications (CTA). If she has a degree then she shouldn't need to do a technician level qualification first (AAT or ATT).

Personally, as another person who recruits graduates trainee accountants, I wouldn't recommend doing an accountancy degree. Ok it can get you some exemptions from the qualifications but I would actually insist all my grads sit the full qualification anyway. I would recommend she does a degree in a subject she is interested in. I have recruited grads with a variety of different degree subjects including politics. She doesn't necessarily need a STEM degree to go into accountancy.

Also, she should look more widely than the Big 4 accountancy firms. All large organisations need accountants. She should look at what the various training programmes offer. At my org we ensure trainees get a variety of placements across financial and management accountancy to support their studies so they can try a bit of everything before they decide what to specialise in once they have qualified.

Accountancy is also a great route into business management.

@AxCap - it’s one of the large non-big 4 you mention. Definitely could be a local office thing, I agree there is huge regional differences in culture.

Another one here who thinks it might be worth your dd having a look at actuarial.

It is the career for people who found accountancy too exciting!

Hi
I didnt do a degree but people I trained with did all manner of subjects. Big 4 applications are fierce and they looked for good GCSE and a level results and at least a 2:1.
I actually went from a PA role to doing the aat and then aca. It's a great qualification for doing all kinds of roles. My peers are in finance, HR, COO roles, set their own companies up etc

Look to mid tier firms also especially since government is trying to break up the big 4 stronghold. also look on icaew website for qualification routes.

The exams can be tough and it's not all about numbers. I hated maths but got first time passes 🤷‍♀️

Good luck its a great career option!

A grad on DDs placement at a Big4 said he wished he’d not done an accounting degree as the graduate scheme covers everything regardless of exemptions & that either any other degree or direct entry would have been better.

Your DD could apply to university to study a degree that she fancies (economics?) and simultaneously apply for the higher apprentices ideally level 7 or at least 6 with the Big4 (PwC, Deloitte, EY & KPMG), BDO, RSM, Grant Thornton and Mazars just off the top of my head. Start looking/applying in October/November as once they’ve had enough applicants they close their processes. They’re highly competitive with literally thousands applying for a handful of vacancies, so it’s good to get in early. These higher apprenticeships are aimed at school leavers post A level, provide paid work experience with day/block release to study accountancy exams over 4 years and usually finish with Chartered Accountant. Some are for shorter periods and AAT, so ensure your DD reads the small print and knows exactly what she’s applying for.
As well as the school leaver apprenticeships Some of the Big4 offer a degree programme too, like PwCs Flying Start, however these are quite different to the apprenticeships in that you still go to uni as normal (and pay the fees), but do paid work experience as part of your degree and a number of the ICAEW exams towards Chartered status. So if she definitely wants the uni experience thus could be an option.
In the meantime, there’s work experience sessions, weeks, or ‘insight days’ for teens in Yr11 & yr12 at the Big4, usually during the holidays. Applications will probably be opening around now.
Just to add, as well as the level 7 ‘higher apprenticeships’ that are 4 years and end with ACA, there are other accountancy apprenticeships starting at level 3/4 for 2 years that you can progress with in smaller firms and work your way up if so desired.

"It would really depend on the individual as obviously some are more mature than others at that age and have the confidence to deal with difficult clients"

Agreed - good point from a PP.

Something overlooked but really important for growing minds.

Having experienced doing a post school Apprenticeship with the Big 4 I would definitely say it aged me before my time and looking back would recommend Uni first to develop as a rounded individual, finances permitting of course.

Currently working with students and interns at the moment and it effectively has been 1 year working from their bedrooms which for training purposes is challenging to get the most out of this set up.

Just something to note.