If your dc successfully applied to Oxbridge/RG - what advice would you give looking back at gcse choices?

[solittletime]

Dc currently choosing options. School has set her core subjects:
English, combined science, maths (higher), French, History, RS short course.
Then will do Latin as an extra.
How much will the two options matter?
Should they stick with ‘academic’ subjects.
She simply can’t chose between Btec drama, geography, business studies, RS.
For someone who seems to show academic potential would it spoil their later chances if they chose to do business studies and drama? Or are we overthinking this!
No idea what they’ll want to do at A level or after, just want to make sure all options remain available.
Thanks, hope that all makes sense!

Any pointers welcome, including “you’re really overthinking this stop being such a helicopter parent” :)

I did Art gsce for a bit of light relief from other subjects and went to cambridge. So glad I had it! Although...
Only thing I’d warn about if it matters is that those subjects are harder to guarantee a top score in- I got a C in Art GCSE and nine A* otherwise.
Drama can be studied later if she wants to be an actor. But I do think its important to have one subject you let your hair down with and it will teach confidence in public speaking and staying connected to her feelings etc which is great
Business studies at gcse level isnt worth paper its written on. Really wouldnt bother

I’d let her do drama and save her a bit of revision (ie not geography unless she genuinely likes geography but doesnt look like she does)

Other thing to think about is expanding to do all three sciences so you can at some point in future do a science degree. They say you can with double science at oxbridge but its so much less likely.

My DS went to Cambridge . He did all academic subjects for GCSE including Latin and Greek. I think its best to get a strong base at GCSE. He was very ill when he was in the sixth form and Cambridge still took him even though he slipped a grade on one of his A levels. I think his GCSEs helped him to get in.

Seven of my DC did undergrad at Oxford and only one of those didn't include Art or Drama in their GCSEs. They all wanted an 'non classroom' subject which I thought a very good idea.

One even did Art as one of her three A level choices (and got in for History).

With respect, you're hugely overthinking this. Art/ Drama/ Business - all good!

Check out the requirements for taking those subjects at a level or uni. I think for many business courses, you may not need business studies gcse or a level to do them (I don’t think you need business studies gcse to do it at a level, but may depend on school).

RS may be helpful for humanities type stuff - eg combining with history, Latin, English. Could open up philosophy at uni. If she is doing the short course anyway, it may not be that much extra - but it depends if she likes it.

If she likes science and there is option of triple award, I’d encourage that- as it can be useful to have a science a level even if you do something else at uni (eg for opening jobs up)

Quite a lot of people I know did gcse drama and went to oxbridge/RG (so, shouldn’t be a problem) - but I don’t know how this differs from b tech.

Yep you're overthinking. As long as there are 7 or 8 decent academic subjects (which there almost certainly will be given that there is actually very little choice given), unis really really don't care. A few courses (eg med) take the best 8 grades as a filter - so picking geography and getting a 7 would be a poorer choice if picking drama would mean getting a 9.

If she's already doing the RS short course I wouldn't bother doing the extra. Concepts are all covered and it's presumably just more detail?

My older son chose music, statistics and computing - he's studying Engineering at Cambridge. Younger son had fewer choices so once he was doing both history and french there was just music left. He's just been offered a place at Cambridge for Law.

Music was pretty much a given for both of them. A lot of Serious Musicians are very sniffy about Music GCSE but I think they were better doing it than not.

With english, history, RS and latin I don't think geography will add much in terms of mind-broadening or skillset so only do it for the content. I'd be inclined to think drama would actually be better.

Like pp, not convinced that business studies gcse is useful.

I wouldn't worry too much, it's a good idea to have a good spread of subjects. I also think three separate sciences would be better. My D1 (at Oxford) did Art GCSE and loved having a less academic, creative subject to balance out the rest. She even considered doing Art for A level, which would have been fine for her course (History joint) - she would have needed to get A or A*, obviously.

They do obviously look at the GCSE grades, and I think Oxford more than Cambridge put a lot of emphasis on the grades at GCSE, so don't see art or drama as just for fun and then get a poor grade.

expanding to do all three sciences so you can at some point in future do a science degree.

'Triple' science (separate science grades given) is not a requirement for A level in any of the sciences and by the time you've got the relevant required A level and the general grade requirements for GCSE (4 or 5 - or 6 at the pickier universities - in English and Maths), then whether you did combined science or separate at GCSE is irrelevant. There are schools where only the combined course is available.

You’re overthinking - there is a list of preferred subjects for A level but GCSE subjects don’t matter as long as your DD can get onto her desired A levels with them (e.g. geography GCSE might be required for geography A level).

It probably does not matter too much if they take one or two subjects for enjoyment rather than maximising their future chances. Having said that, my Dd did regret taking drama when she could have done geography instead - which would have been much easier to get a top grade in. It did not stop her getting a place to do the subject she wanted but it probably caused her to worry more iyswim.

This has been so helpful thank you! It’s tricky because with the lockdown she has become so disinterested in everything. I think drama looks very likely, just leaves one more option to chose. Shame they don’t seem to have drama gcse, just Btec. Interesting so many mentioning art, dd has totally ruled this out. Also finds science hard so not keen on triple. I even tried to suggest food tech as she likes cooking, but she said no to that as well! But all your feedback has really helped put everything in perspective thank you. I guess she’ll end up with one ‘choice’ that is just there to make up the number, I suppose on the span of an educational career there’s always that ‘wish I hadn’t chosen that’ moment.

Oh, and I did ICT and product design for two of my options and went to Oxbridge. It’s really more about the grades than the subjects at GCSE level so pick whatever she’s most likely to get an A* in or whatever the equivalent is now (9?).

My only worry with Drama would be how much of the grade is reliant on "joint effort" or " group gradings". My advice would be do what she wants to do coupled with what she will get the best grades in because when applying for uni they become a set of numbers eg. 10 x 9, or 5 x 9, 3 x 8, 2 x 7 etc. rather than specifically looking at subjects except for Maths and English as it is the A level subjects which will determine which degrees she applies for.

DD has an offer from Cambridge this year as do two of her close friends - all for humanity type subjects.
One did music, RE, history and geography.
One did drama, history, business and a second language.
The other did economics, geography, computing and a second language.
I suspect their grades mattered much more than the subjects taken.

DS did 9 'academic' subjects (he took triple science and Further Maths) and then Food Tech and Music. He really enjoyed the light relief of these subjects (but was already a very competent musician so didn't have to work particularly hard for this!)

I imagine that grades achieved on GCSE's will matter more than the subject chosen so would recommend she picks the subjects she is likely to do better at.

So she has 7 definites, RE short course and 2 slots? But drama is not a GCSE?
I would be inclined towards doing RE as one of the slots so as to get the full GCSE for just a bit more work. Then something creative and not all book work like the Drama BTEC.

My advice as a form tutor is to do what you like and do what you are good at. Our school has such a limited choice that it makes little difference.

I teach Music and both DDs are accomplished musicians. DD1 did Music GCSE, DD2 did Drama. DD1 got A*, DD2 got a lower grade. Does it matter? Not really. Did it affect their uni choices? Not at all.

Thanks again. Having looked at the website again I believe English is 2 GCSEs, language and literature.
Which means 8 definite plus two slots. I think!
Interesting input @sendsummer You’re right, if she’s doing the short course anyway and is indecided might as well make it a full gcse.

@MarchingFrogs

expanding to do all three sciences so you can at some point in future do a science degree.

'Triple' science (separate science grades given) is not a requirement for A level in any of the sciences and by the time you've got the relevant required A level and the general grade requirements for GCSE (4 or 5 - or 6 at the pickier universities - in English and Maths), then whether you did combined science or separate at GCSE is irrelevant. There are schools where only the combined course is available.

Does it not mean there's more of a jump from GCSE to As from double science rather than triple?

Does it not mean there's more of a jump from GCSE to As from double science rather than triple?

Since the new spec GCSEs, this really isn't a major issue. There is so much more material in the 'new' double Science GCSE qualification that the gap to A-level is much smaller.

In the past, double in a double-only school followed by A-level in the same type of school and triple followed by A-level at a triple-offering school were both slightly more successful (final grade wise) than double at a triple offering school followed by A-level. However, as double scientists at schools where triple was offered were typically slightly weaker (the cohort may well contain some students who did double to allow time for other options but also contained those seen as 'less strong') the data is somewhat murky.

DD has done a science A-level at a triple-offering school, coming from a double-offering school. There was a single topic in y13 where she was missing some background from GCSE - but her peers had largely forgotten it anyway. It has not held her back at all.

Mine is at Cambridge doing engineering. Her GCSEs included 'non academic' drama and Electronic products, also comp. sci. I'd say these were all much more valuable to her than the 'academic' MFL and English lit she had to take - especially the electronics!

But, that was pre-reform, so they were among 12 subjects, options are more limited now unfortunately.

In terms of thinking ahead to uni then, I think there are 2 broad guidelines:
1 Don't drop a subject if it rules out an A level you think you might want to do.
Some subjects like business studies won't be a requirement for any A level. Some other A levels may be allowed without the corresponding gcse - probably worth having a quick look at 6th form entrance requirements for a feel of this. Eg history might require a history gcse but RS might require a humanity but not necessarily RS - that sort of thing iyswim.
And beyond that, unis have very few dependencies on GCSE subjects other than the core of maths, English and sometimes a science. An MFL is needed for some of the 'engineering with German/French' type of things, if that's likely to be of any interest.

2 The more competitive ones look at grades rather than exactly what subjects.

And I'm not sure anywhere other than Oxford and medical schools give much weight to GCSEs ... they're not the be-all and end-all at Cambridge. See the relevant section in this link.

www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/applying/entrance-requirements