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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Cost of studying in the US

51 replies

Ijustwanttoask · 15/02/2021 23:27

I am out of the loop here as my child is still very young, but for reference, can anyone give me a ballpark figure of the cost to study for a degree as overseas student in the US? I know that there are public and private universities over there and I assume the cost will be very different? How about living expenses?

OP posts:
ealingwestmum · 17/02/2021 20:43

You don’t just get to send a child to Harvard any more than you do to Oxford

Of course you don't. Not sure if that's how it was implied either.

Well done though to your DD for getting an offer, and for you all to exercise some different options for her, even if that one wasn't the one.

It’s not just about what you might get - it’s about the huge competition and chance of getting it.

I think anyone with DC attempting to go to US to a prestigious college, or elsewhere internationally, would know this. In the same way they'd know that the odds for Oxbridge acceptance are also pretty slim, no matter how stellar the applicant was. The Oxbridge threads, year after year demonstrate that, but it would be wrong to say 'not for the likes of you' for those not familiar with the competitive process, be it perceived or real experience.

My point is that international apps are really loaded with some downsides, but, if circumstances allow and you have the right kind of DC that could thrive in such a setting like Eileen says, then explore the options without getting held back by the elitist/too much/too competitive etc constraints. Outreach strategies are used for both UK and international apps and I hope they continue to try reaching a wider audience. I've enjoyed seeing the approaches to DD made by Spanish unis, not discounted at this stage either but have come on the back of her profile showing interests beyond the UK.

mimbleandlittlemy · 17/02/2021 20:46

OP - such young dc as yours will go through lots of changes in what they plan to do over the next few years. When mine was in Y6 he was heading down the STEM route full steam ahead. Up to GCSE he was considering doing Astrophysics. Ended up doing History, German And Psychology A level and is off to uni in September to do Modern Languages.

It’s far too early to be thinking about whether or not they would want to go to a US uni - as far as uni is concerned you have some years to go and even up to y12 it’s worth going with the flow a bit.

Ijustwanttoask · 17/02/2021 21:31

@mimbleandlittlemy I do agree DC are very small - they might not even want to go to uni! It's more the cost I was curious about, so that we have an idea for financial planning really.

OP posts:
PresentingPercy · 17/02/2021 22:48

Unfortunately it’s £0 to £250,000 plus.

I do think the popularity and chat about going to uni is the usa downplays the difficulties. International applications are truly loaded with downsides. They are rarely discussed or talked about though. It is made to look easy.

PresentingPercy · 17/02/2021 22:54

Sadly with the state of MFL teaching and fewer and fewer children doing them, I think the average dc learning a language well enough to study in a European university straight from school is remote. Very good universities here offer MFL courses so undergrads can study in Europe or elsewhere for a year. DDs boyfriend did French post gcse at uni and studied in a Grande Ecole in France for Y3 - mechanical engineering. He was rare though. DD did MFL and I whole heartedly approve of study abroad. It’s very valuable but the government doesn’t agree.

ealingwestmum · 18/02/2021 12:29

I do think the popularity and chat about going to uni is the usa downplays the difficulties. International applications are truly loaded with downsides. They are rarely discussed or talked about though. It is made to look easy.

If there are many chats on MN about US, then genuinely, I have missed them. I’ve avoided the ones I do see purely as they are shut down as quickly as they start, which I understand for the reasons you give, but, I don’t think those that consider it do think it’s made to look easy? And if they do, then I guess supporting DC through the process will soon change that opinion! I do not think paying full ticket price is value for money either.

Totally agree on the languages front. DD has been very fortunate to have had a great MFL dept enabling her to study 3 to GCSE as a non native, one of which she is studying at A level.

Bobbybobbins · 18/02/2021 13:35

I did two years at uni in the US and two years in the UK. I absolutely loved every minute of it.

I wasn't at an Ivy League uni and found the classes much easier than those at the UK university but obviously this depends massively on the uni!

I did my first on a full scholarship aimed as a kind of cultural enrichment for one student per year from the county I grew up in (poor rural lacking in HE opportunities then) and the second on exchange - arranged by me through the international office.

ealingwestmum · 18/02/2021 14:13

Sounds like the perfect mix Bobbybobbins!

Good luck OP with the choosing of schools for your Y6 DC. As PPs have said, lots of time to think about HE still but completely understand the mental prep on cost options that influence secondary decisions...

PresentingPercy · 18/02/2021 14:34

I do think some schools “sell” the idea of studying in the USA. They use it as a very big positive. Which it can be. However they don’t explain the money needed (and some DC going are very rich) and they don’t explain about needs blind. In fact DC get the impression it’s no more costly than here and for lots of DC, that’s not true. The schools obviously are aware how difficult/expensive it is but DCs heads are turned. If the op has very bright dc and is keen for this it might be an option but it’s far easier to stay here!

QueenoftheAir · 18/02/2021 17:17

you pay €600 a year in admin fees and public transport pass. In my city a studio for a student is €350. So for less than 400 quid a month, you can study and live here

And most teaching in German universities (I know several quite well) can tend to be in huge lecture groups, with very little of the personal attention that is standard in UK universities. Certainly very little campus life, and no personal tutorials or pastoral care. Seminars of up to 60 students - so it may as well be a lecture ...

You get what you pay for.

PresentingPercy · 18/02/2021 19:24

And do they teach in English? I wouldn’t think so.

Needmoresleep · 19/02/2021 10:24

DS is in the US, but post grad, so they are paying. Otherwise it would be an awful lot of money. His first two years, out of six, were a taught Masters, the other four is PhD.

A few observations:

  1. Learning is different. They have an awful lot of exams. Mid terms etc. And if Grade Point Average and Class Placement matters which it seems to, each of these exams matters. The scoring is also different. DS got 99% in one exam which I thought was brilliant. Not necessarily. If the rest of the class got 100% (which could happen) he would have ended up with an A- or B. Coming from a British culture of self directed study and final exams he found the constant monitoring stressful.
  1. Students seem to work harder. Even DS noticed this, and he was always considered diligent. DD's friend, an UG at the same University, found himself working harder than he had expected.
  1. A different culture including no alcohol for under 21s.
  1. International students can be isolated. DS is relatively lucky coming from England which is both Anglophone and European, and having Asian friends he met in London at the same University, and able to join the Latin Americans in the departmental football team (they got banned for swearing - unfortunately the ref could speak Spanish) so feet in all camps. This may be more a Post Graduate problem and may affect some subjects and nationalities more than others.
  1. In terms of whether UK or US Universities are better, the advantage UK degrees have is that they are shorter. DS, took four years to get BSc and Masters in the UK, arrived younger and more technically skilled than his peers, who had completed broader, less specialised four year first degrees. Breadth or depth? Our observation is that scientists often do UK first then US, whereas those seeking Liberal Arts see real advantage in the broader US undergraduate degrees.
  1. The US application process is way more time consuming, but then offers are essentially unconditional.
EileenGC · 19/02/2021 15:32

@QueenoftheAir

you pay €600 a year in admin fees and public transport pass. In my city a studio for a student is €350. So for less than 400 quid a month, you can study and live here

And most teaching in German universities (I know several quite well) can tend to be in huge lecture groups, with very little of the personal attention that is standard in UK universities. Certainly very little campus life, and no personal tutorials or pastoral care. Seminars of up to 60 students - so it may as well be a lecture ...

You get what you pay for.

It really, really depends on the degree and the university you choose.

I personally have 2h one-to-one each week and the largest seminar I’ve ever been in was with 12 other people. It’s usually between 6-8. I have also studied in the UK were I had lectures with 60 other students which would never happen where I am. This uni is in the top 5 nationally for my subject, and has a good reputation internationally, admission rate just over 10%. So not just some small city school no one wants to go to.

It depends on the degree, end of. I would never get so much ‘personal attention’ back in the UK, where there were 20 people in my department. We are now 5 and our main tutor has 4x the amount of time for each of us.

PresentingPercy · 19/02/2021 16:43

No one has answered the question regarding speaking German to a decent level. Most MFL students studying German go in their third year. The unis listed at DDs uni were teaching in German. No one would access the curriculum with a gcse in German. Where you study is very dependent on language acquisition.

Needmoresleep · 19/02/2021 17:42

Percy, there is a huge difference between language acquisition and language study. I have learnt four languages as an adult. My former employer would expect someone to pick up German to a level that enables you to start working in three months. Three months hard work, yes, but doable.

Lots of overseas students, particularly from India and Pakistan, study in Germany. Its cheaper and the Universities are good. Most will have had no previous exposure to German at all. They manage, so there must be a way. (I assume a mix between some first year courses being in English and some intensive support.)

Somehow in the UK we have got to believe that learning a language is a big deal, possibly because GCSE is so deathly dull and the pace of learning is so slow. If you go to Borneo, your taxi driver may well speak eight very different languages. Small children in Iceland have perfect English. Our Slovak au pair went from no English at all to near fluency in a year. I appreciate you are the Boards resident language expert, however I believe that the way to acquire a language (as opposed to study it) is exposure and motivation.

hidingmystatus · 19/02/2021 18:16

My DD is in her first undergraduate year in a specialist Conservatoire in the US. Application process is VERY Different and you need to be up to speed much earlier than you think. Cost - before scholarships, assume $100k per year to cover all stuff and travel. HOWEVER - even as a foreign student, two of her three offers were providing merit scholarships of over 1/3 of the annual fees/costs. So it very much depends where you are applying. However, the ancillary costs of deciding on the US can be high - there is an application fee of c.$100 per college, it would be risky not to visit (more cost), etc. It is a LOT.

PresentingPercy · 19/02/2021 18:20

I do agree with you. However most uk students wouldn’t do this if they didn’t have a good grounding in German. Some people find language acquisition easy. Lots of British students don’t. They are not interested and risk averse. They simply wouldn’t go to a German university that taught in German. How many without German heritage actually do this from the uk?

PresentingPercy · 19/02/2021 18:23

@hidingmystatus
So you are still looking at over $70,000 P/a for 4 years, even with a scholarship? Best to go to Germany I think? (Not a serious comment!)

hidingmystatus · 19/02/2021 18:31

It depends what you want, doesn't it? That particular institution - and indeed the other US options - is one of the top five in the world for her specialty. However, we were very clear that she would only go to the US if she could get into somewhere really highly ranked, because we certainly would NOT fund that much for somewhere worse than the UK could provide.

EileenGC · 19/02/2021 21:43

They manage, so there must be a way. (I assume a mix between some first year courses being in English and some intensive support.)

This. There needs to be a will to learn. Yes, it’s difficult, but not impossible and a foreign language shouldn’t be considered a barrier for studying abroad.

No one would access the curriculum with a gcse in German. Where you study is very dependent on language acquisition.

I moved to England for uni right after finishing high school in my country. My English level would’ve been similar to a UK student’s French if they had studied it during secondary. I had some basic knowledge but nowhere near enough for starting a full time degree in English.

I received my offer in January, and the university told me I had until the summer to take an English language test, and achieve a minimum of B2 competence. So I started doing one hour of English a day, watching TV only in English, and took my exam in May. A third of the student body at this university was made up of international students. Most of us didn’t have a B2 in English when we applied, we all had it (on paper) when we started the course. No one ever mentioned it being an issue, it’s just what you do. Thousands of students go through this to study in the UK, and it’s neither unreasonable nor realistic to expect 18 year olds to learn a language in 6 months. They can do it - they’ll learn the basics and fill in the gaps and become fluent once they move to the new country.

Somehow in the UK we have got to believe that learning a language is a big deal, possibly because GCSE is so deathly dull and the pace of learning is so slow.

I must say, I was so impressed when I saw the amount of help and resources the UK offers non-native speakers. We had access to an intensive booster English course, essay writing sessions, introduction to British culture... it was amazing. Kids in UK schools are supported in learning English, if it’s not their first language.

If the UK can support its non-native students in achieving good competence of the language, and does so wonderfully, why does it make such a big deal out of their own children learning a foreign language? Why isn’t the UK normalising the fact that learning French/German/Spanish isn’t hard, but useful and beneficial to all? This attitude shocked me - few people see languages as useful. I’ve lived in a few different countries and I have to say, it’s always shocking to meet British people who move abroad and still expect others to communicate with them in English because it’s the ‘international language’.

Apologies for the long post, I just wanted to reiterate my first point. Learning a foreign language shouldn’t be seen as a barrier for accessing a university course abroad. It’s a perfectly normal thing to do in other countries and we should be encouraging our children to open their minds more and have a look at what’s outside their own country’s borders too.

ChimneyPot · 19/02/2021 23:58

My DD is due to start university in the US this August.
As others have said the application process is very different to the U.K. application process and incredibly time consuming. Each college will have separate time consuming requirements.

It is also recommended by some that the student tailor their activities towards their application for a few years before they apply. DD didn’t do this but got accepted by her college of choice anyway.

The cost is about 80k per year unless you get funding and funding is limited for international students.
A lot of the colleges have financial aid calculators on their website that estimate the annual cost of fees, accommodations, food, books and give you an idea based in your income, savings and nationality if you qualify for aid.

DD is a US citizen and her college is very generous with financial aid. Being a US citizen also means she can work in the US while studying and her college has lots of opportunities for well paid term time internships.

QueenoftheAir · 20/02/2021 11:03

A few more general points about studying in the rest of Europe or the US:

Think about what you want to do after your degree. Is your degree a way into a recognisably international career? In which case (as in the case of @hidingmystatus's DD - at Juilliard or the like) then the investment is likely to be a good one.

Is the institution from which you will graduate recognised beyond the local area, state, or country? This is the difference between Harvard and Boston College ... I work in HE, I know that UPenn is v highly rated, but I'm not sure a run of the mill UK employer would know that UPenn is Ivy League, or that UT (Austin) is a very highly ranked school internationally.

If you want to return to the UK, and make a career here, how will you develop networks with future colleagues and likely employers? I see it all the time in my field - current students work together and advocate for each other as peers, and then as colleagues once they're in work.

There is also the issue of national qualifications standards - in law, medicine, architecture etc.

The other thing to say is that the best in the UK is actually the best in the world. We punch way above our weight in terns of research and teaching quality, and on far less money than, say, the US.

hidingmystatus · 20/02/2021 11:07

@QueenoftheAir - the like. And I agree with everything you've said there. Specialist creatives - the US is right up there. Straight university degrees - the UK is far better if you are dedicated to a subject.

Crescia · 20/02/2021 11:35

The U.K. really isn't the best in the world....and U.K. employers do understand world wide rankings. It would be absurd for them not to be aware of them.

QueenoftheAir · 20/02/2021 12:46

I'm not really a fan of rankings, but in the QS World University ratings, 4 of the top ten universities are UK institutions. 5 are US institutions - but note that the population of the USA is ca. 330 million & UK ca 67 million - so USA is at least 4 times as populous as UK.

www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2021