Geography, help for the clueless

[makemyweek]

DS is in year 12 and wants to study Geography at Uni. He is mature, studious, not a party animal, plays guitar and would probably like to find a band to play with. He is currently working at AAA and is also doing a Btec in Music Performance. His preference is physical geography, particularly coastal.

He would be the first in the family to go to university so we are a bit clueless. I'm
looking for some general advice on choosing a uni and personal experiences of studying Geography, the good and bad, things to look for when making a shortlist (aside from just the league tables).

Thank you.

www.whatuni.com/degree-courses/search?subject=geography&sort=entd

This shows all 'Geography' courses in descending order of entry requirements - you can play around with the parameters (I tried putting in AAA for A levels but although it works 'live', the link back kept breaking. The requirements for St Andrews are above AAA - the list from that level starts with Exeter). For universities stating their requirements by A level grades, the BTEC won't really be relevant and for those stating UCAS points, AAA is likely to be above what they require anyway (the BTEC will have to be declared on his application in any case, though).

I would go for course first, then where he wants to study it. No point in getting fixated on, e.g.everyone says I should go to Exeter, cos Russell Group, when the course at e.g. non-RG Lancaster is much more suited to his interests and future goals and would only take two hours to get to versus ten, or whatever.

Has he actually visited any parts of the country where he thinks he might be happy to live for 3 or 4 years? We are just about to move into the university open day season, but they are all virtual this year, so it does help if one has a little knowledge of locations. DS2 is a current applicant and has only visited the three of his choices (by course and sorry, not Geography) that he has, due to being dragged along when his older siblings were visiting, or in the case of one university, both attending, but DH and I have both visited the other two on a few occasions between us.

There is also a lot of useful stuff on the UCAS website - it's not just the apication form on there. Which I sometimes think even some applicants seem to have missed completely...

It can be a less competitive course to get on, so it might be worth a crack at Oxford or Cambridge with his grades as long as he accepts it is a long shot. (First in his family to go to University, and perhaps other things should help.)

Does his school geography teacher have ideas?

Course content is everything, and can vary a lot with geography. For example LSE, though well regarded, is very urban.

What else appeals. City, campus, traditional, modern? By the sea?

What other subjects is he taking? If maths/science, geology at somewhere like Imperial/Royal School of Mines might appeal. But there are lots of more general geology courses out there.

My son did BSc geography at Birmingham university, doing all the physical options. He loved the course and had a great time overall. He graduated in 2019 and was lucky to get a great job using his degree. Going back a few years, I remember when he was applying how geography courses vary massively so do check carefully

Unrelated to geography, another thing to check is accommodation costs, as they vary hugely. Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Cardiff, Leeds (not exhaustive list) are all good bets if money is an issue.

I think Aberystwyth and Southampton have good coastal based physical geography courses, although its been a long time since I was looking at Uni so that may have changed.

I did geography at Sussex, I liked the interdisciplinary approach, I initially did Geography and Environmental Science but actually swapped to a BA at the end of the first year. For a uni so close to the sea when I was there there wasn't much coastal content. They did have a great field trip offer though.

Also many universities offer coastal options even if not by the coast, Birmingham being just about as far away from the coast as possible so no need to worry there, they arrange various trips.

Hi OP. I have a current DS applicant. As you know, Geog is a hugely broad and ranging subject that can be approached from a scientific perspective at one end, through the social sciences to the humanities at the other.

We found that BSc courses at many unis have slightly lowers entry requirements than BA courses - eg at Durham is A*AA for the BA, AAA for the BSc. It’s the same at Exeter. Bristol is a BSc and it’s AAA too. But if he’s eligible for a contextual offer (based on various factors) these three unis will make lower offers such as ABB.

Oxford and Cambridge both offer only a BA (though there is a balance of physical and human topics in both courses), but the minimum grades for both is A*AA and he would be very unlikely to get to the interview stage with anything lower.

If he’s very much into the physical side, he could also look at degrees in geology or environmental science?

All the Geog courses I’ve mentioned above (but not Oxbridge) offer a year abroad option, either at an overseas uni or in a work placement.

If coastlines are his thing, Exeter could be a good one. They have two campuses - one in Exeter (he would need a minimum of AAA for the BSc there, I think), but they also have another campus in Cornwall (Penryn) where they ask lower grades for the same course. Penryn is less popular due to a more remote location (hence the lower grade requirements), but it might be right up his street as it’s coasts galore down there.

So if he has AAA predictions, he could apply for BSc Geog at Exeter, Durham and Bristol maybe? Then he would need insurance options, so have a look at maybe Sussex or Southampton? Both these have great programmes and Year out options. There will be others too, but these are the ones that spring to mind. York might be another.

Of course, there will be Geog courses at unis such as Manchester, Birmingham, UCL etc, but as a physical geographer, a city location may be less appealing? I don’t know...

My DS is very much on the human side of Geog, so has applied to LSE where the focus is political / economic geography and a lot of overlap with the social sciences in general, but this course probably wouldn’t interest your DS.

As I say though, have a look at geology and environmental science courses too.

Hope this is helpful and good luck to him!

My DD has friends who studied Geography at Manchester and Nottingham. Both very happy. DSis did Geography at UCL.

If he wants to play music, I would look at where there is a strong music scene. Places like Sheffield, Leeds, Manchester, Bristol, Liverpool, Newcastle etc immediately come to mind where he might find like minded students.

quest1on makes a good point about Exeter. Because they have two courses, if you narrowly miss the grades required for the Streatham campus (in Exeter) they might well offer you the course in Penryn.

This happened to a friend of DDs, though for a different subject. He went, partly because the degree certificate says University of Exeter regardless. He did well in his first year and had the option of transferring back to the first course, but decided to stay in Penryn. Not just the amazing location, but also because of the lively University arts scene, as the campus is effectively shared with Falmouth University, which offers lots of well regarded arts courses.

Wow. Thank you all so much for such useful information. It's so helpful and gives us a really good starting point. He is also using unifrog and ucas for guidance and information. School are good too but their input has suffered a little because of lockdown.

Great advice to ask his Geography teachers - don't know why that never occurred to me.

His school is on the lists for contextual offer considerations but we are not a low income family and live in a postcode which isn't included on the list.

Also Warwick don’t offer Geography for some reason. Nor do Bath, though they do offer International Development with Economics which may appeal to human geographers and I think also a few Environmental- based courses too for more physical geographers.

As pps have said, the main thing initially is to decide between campus or town / city living and also how far from home he wants to go!

I was the first person in my family to go to university too, and I read geography - biased, obvs, but I think it's a great degree subject :-)

If your son is thinking of Oxbridge, btw, don't be put off by Cambridge only offering a BA. By a strange historical quirk nobody gets a BSc at Cambridge - even in the proper hardcore science subjects everyone graduates with a BA. Plenty of opportunities to specialise in physical geography at Cambridge.

Aside from looking at where he'd want to live for 3 years, I suggest looking at the elective options and the research interests of the academic staff at each university he's considering, for whether they map closely onto the topics he'd want to study. Geography is a broad, "magpie", subject which comes in many different flavours. Also look at how early, and how much, students can specialise in human, cultural or physical geography. My personal view is that a course which offers a broad base in the first year with maximum flexibility later on, is ideal but if he is sure of his path then he might be frustrated by a course that didn't permit specialisation from the start. Look at the fieldwork offer too.

My old university's alumni magazine is online and might give him a sense of where geography could take him. There's a feature in each issue on a former student and their career after uni. Also lots of broad brush articles about some of the department's current research work (good for current awareness about what's going on in the world of geography, for interviews later on). Other universities might have similar if he digs about on their websites. www.geog.cam.ac.uk/alumni/landmark/

Thank you Ceara. That is brilliant advice and glad to hear you enjoyed Geography. Useful link too.

I would be a bit wary of asking teachers. Generally they have been to one university and teachers can have been to any university. What they did might not suit DS and his circumstances. At worst they could say all universities are equal - and they are not.

Nearly every geography grad I know (bar Dsis) has gone on to do further study to access the career they want. Be it planning, surveying, sustainable food production etc. The great thing about geography is that so many avenues open up.

I would have thought that unis on the coast might have better chance of research centres and coastal content in their course?

My dd picked her unis by

1. Narrowing down to the unis in the sort of location that appeals. We live in a town and she wants a city for a bit more excitement. Going to a London uni will mean bigger loans so she discounted them,

1. Googled best ranked unis for her subject and a tarted reading the course descriptions. Some were quickly discounted as they focused on an area that she wasn't interested in where as others were tailored towards students who were aiming for a similar career path. This ended up with 3/4 unis that she would be happy to study at

1. Drove to a couple that we were unfamiliar with when it wasn't lockdown. Didn't get to see the uni but dd appreciated getting the vibe of the place that she was going to be living in. We also googled where the uni students socialised and had a quick nosey there. Dd should pass her driving test once tests restart and she doesn't mind driving places or taking cabs if alcohol is involved.

Yes it's a really good point about locations. We don't live too far outside London but in a tiny village so any location would have more of a buzz than here. One of the reasons for trying to start some sort of a list is to do a bit of visiting as we are not familiar with lots of the various university towns (once lockdown ends of course).

While he is working at AAA (school give termly reports) his targets are higher so he thinks he might chance applying to Oxford or Cambridge with full knowledge that it is a long shot. Cambridge seems to have more physical geography content but this needs investigation.

It does seem like Geography can be a stepping stone into lots of careers which is great. For a boy who is more of a strong silent type, he kind of comes alive when he is explaining some aspect of geography to us and it makes me happy that he might have the chance to do a subject he loves in much more depth at university.

I'm really grateful for the information you've all shared.

One other suggestion OP, is that if his school offer EPQ, it’s worth doing one of those in a relevant area as, if nothing else, it’s something to include in the personal statement and shows independent research skills (invaluable for a geographer). He could also enter the Young Geographer of the Year which is an essay competition (only 1,000 words or so on a given theme each year). This usually comes up every May / June, I think, but have a look. They have about 7,000 entires every year, so it’s not really about expecting to win, but again, it’s all good stuff to boost his PS. There are other essay competitions too, I’m sure, if you have a Google. There is also something called Routes which is an online journal for A-level and undergrad geographers and, if he has a good essay or piece of individual research, they might accept his work and offer feedback / editing etc and then publish it on there for him. All these things help! Also, join the RGS if you haven’t already, so he can watch some online lectures, even if he can’t go this summer. Subscribe to the Geographical magazine too as it’s good for contemporary issues. All these things will help wherever he applies because they want evidence that you take your interest beyond the curriculum. Just don’t mention the book, “Prisoners of Geography” in the PS as apparently, so many geography applicants do this that it’s become a cliche (a bit like an English Lit applicant starting off with, “My favourite book is Jane Eyre... ).

While he is working at AAA (school give termly reports) his targets are higher so he thinks he might chance applying to Oxford or Cambridge with full knowledge that it is a long shot. Cambridge seems to have more physical geography content but this needs investigation.

I've got a young relative who did geog at Cambridge - she's very much specialised on the physical side, PhD and postdoc now - what she does looks like geology with a lot of statistics to me.

I don't know whether location ever makes any difference in physical geog, if there's more coastal at unis near the coast. Obviously some specialisms eg polar or glaciers won't work that way so maybe it's irrelevant...just a random thought.

If your son is thinking of Oxbridge, btw, don't be put off by Cambridge only offering a BA. By a strange historical quirk nobody gets a BSc at Cambridge - even in the proper hardcore science subjects everyone graduates with a BA. Plenty of opportunities to specialise in physical geography at Cambridge.

This applies to Oxford too. There are no BSc degrees. Another quirk is that your BA magically (for an admin fee) transforms into an MA 7 years after matriculation (starting university). Cambridge hands them out after 6 years. They are written as MA (Oxon) for Oxford or MA (Canatab) so everyone knows that they aren't "real" postgraduate degrees

A bit left field but following on from Quest1on, first he could look to see if the Royal Geography Society offer, now on-line, public lectures, or whether any of the Universities that he is interested in, do. I know the LSE always have a good programme of public lectures, but others will do as well.

He might then follow anyone he finds interesting on Twitter. My student daughter has done this, I assume like others. This leads onto other interesting stuff and academics, via retweets, and means she is now aware of quite a number of academics and their work, in the fields she is most focussed on. Some are good at communicating their enthusiasm, which would at least suggest that they might be good people to study under.

I am surprised that asking a subject teacher, rather than randoms on the internet, is not considered good advice. My A level geography teacher used to bus us off to local RGS lectures and was very immersed in her subject. She would have had some good ideas about which departments were strong in which fields.

That totally depends on the school. Some teachers are very anti Oxbridge. They see all universities as being worthy. I’ve heard teachers say that X university was good enough for them so recommend that university. If the majority of teachers really know what differing universities offer, I’d be surprised. The various rankings and asking here might produce better ideas. But by all means ask the teachers. In lots of schools teachers teaching a subject don’t have a degree in it. My BIL taught Geography with a degree in MFL. Shortages of teachers mean all sorts of people teach.

The geography teacher is good enough to inspire OPs son, so ought to be a useful first port of call.

Teachers teaching subjects they are not qualified to teach may have been a problem in schools you know, but I don’t think it is universal. And even so you would expect them to show some broader interest in the subject they were teaching. I looked into retraining as a maths teacher when DC were little. I could not as only 25% of my degree was in maths, not 33%. I would have needed to go back to university and take another couple of courses. Things may be more lax in the private sector, though I don’t recall having a teacher teach the wrong subject, and almost all would have been able to offer views on different University departments, albeit varying levels of insight. (DS’ teacher tried to steer DS towards Edinburgh, but then he was Scottish.)

I was the first in my family and read Georgraphy. Absoultely loved it. I have no other advice only to wish your son the best. He sounds like a brilliant young person. I have never had a day out of work since I graduated. Have gone onto to study part time to MSc level. Georgraphy is a wonderful subject.

Oops very late. Geography.

My mum was studying Geography at Bristol when she met my dad.

Courses vary, it's worth looking at the specialisms of the academics at the uni.

I studied Geography at Durham, and no matter what course you do, first year is a mix of both physical and human. Year 2 you specialise more and year 3 you can focus entirely on your particular interests.

In terms of "best" courses, Oxford Cambridge Durham, St Andrews and I believe the course at Lancaster is highly regarded too, as are Birmingham, Exeter and Bristol.

Definitely look at the specialisms and course options. That should guide which unis to focus his attention on.