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Original poster

Another Path to Greatness - Part II

999 replies

BigWoollyJumpers · 11/02/2021 12:52

Here we are.

OP posts:
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9
SeasonFinale · 12/02/2021 21:40

Hi , re law : yes my comment about the prior work experience did include a "it won't hurt" but I never meant that it was vital or necessary. The main thing is to know when they should be applying for the internships because these very much become the extended interview for the training contracts these days rather than an entirely separate thing as they were even 5 years ago.

chopc · 12/02/2021 21:52

I think @SeasonFinale is right. The way firms hire has changed over the years. A lot of training contracts now go to people who are doing their vacation schemes/ internships

chopc · 12/02/2021 21:53

As from what I have been told by people in the field and read in the chambers student

goodbyestranger · 12/02/2021 22:00

chopc DD1 had several Magic Circle vac schemes, trained at one of those firms, became an Associate. DS2 is currently a trainee at a different Magic Circle firm, having also had several offers/ placements. DD3 is a barrister. Although I was at a Magic Circle firm in the last century, I'm able to be current through my DC....

goodbyestranger · 12/02/2021 22:04

Which is why I'm able to say with complete certainly that there are a number of ways to skin a cat. Also, because all of those DC were at Oxford, which the firms recruit heavily from (as in go up and court applicants with drinks, suppers etc), many many of their friends have also trodden the same path. Hence my reference to lemmings.

goodbyestranger · 12/02/2021 22:06
  • able to say with complete certainty (Grin)
SeasonFinale · 12/02/2021 22:16

Even your DD1's experience is not the norm nowadays I am afraid to say. It is an everchanging playing field.

But yes some still accept separate applications for training contracts even if people haven't had an internship there but some do only recruit from those that have successfully made it onto their internship programmes.

Applicants need to be flexible in their thinking and research the places they would like to apply to so they are not disappointed to see that they have closed off certain routes (at least for certain years) by not applying at the right time.

Law firms also court students and attend recruitment events at other top unis around the country and it is not an Oxbridge only thing so people on this thread shouldn't feel it may be something else their child will miss out on because they didn't get into Oxbridge.

goodbyestranger · 12/02/2021 22:39

SeasonFinale Im not clear how my DCs' experience isn't absolutely current!

And yes absolutely firms go to other unis too. My point was different: that droves of Oxford students head for the Magic Circle vac schemes , it's true of every cohort.

I'm completely up to date on this one.

goodbyestranger · 12/02/2021 22:43

And I'm not quite clear why DD1's experience isn't still the norm - it was absolutely text book! (Three MC vac schemes in the summer of second year, offer of a Training Contract in early September, LPC started a couple of months after graduating)

goodbyestranger · 12/02/2021 22:50

Anyhow, despite that, I would still counsel against being too prescriptive about when you have to do what, and what you have to do.

SeasonFinale · 13/02/2021 10:54

@goodbyestranger

SeasonFinale Im not clear how my DCs' experience isn't absolutely current!

And yes absolutely firms go to other unis too. My point was different: that droves of Oxford students head for the Magic Circle vac schemes , it's true of every cohort.

I'm completely up to date on this one.

Sorry I thought you had said that she got a training contract after not having been on a vac scheme at that firm, which is why I mentioned that wasn't the norm nowadays.
goodbyestranger · 13/02/2021 12:03

No DD1 did everything by the book, DS2 not so much. He did no legal work experience at all, ever, either at school or uni, didn't participate in any law soc stuff, didn't moot, but applied for vac schemes after graduating in History and got pretty instant offers for both vac schemes and then for Training Contracts (as in almost spoiled for choice). He'd never considered law at all during undergrad. There are plenty of other DC who have followed different paths to that so often suggested on MN (ie not slaving away at CABs etc/ high st solicitors'). I just think given the number of young people who come to law in different ways, MN can be a bit rigid in its advice. At the end of the day you either have what these firms are looking for (and even that isn't just one thing; they need diversity) or you don't. The firms don't care about anything except the right intellectual fit combined with the right personality. They couldn't care two hoots about hours spent attempting to show a lifelong interest in law. And for those who think a law degree might be dry..... possibly don't go into law!

PresentingPercy · 13/02/2021 12:03

@goodbyestranger
I fully accept that not every student should, or indeed could, organise a ball. I was really using it as an example that doing something proactive to demonstrate the skills that were posted earlier by pp was worth doing. Every DC has a degree. Lots have Firsts. So what else can a DC bring to the table? Sometimes it is not necessary but at other times it is todemonstrate the skills some employers want. Magic Circle possibly not.

It is also true that selection tests filter out unsuitable candidates so all the work experience in the world will not help. Absolutely. However doing something law related might help DC decide which area of law. It definitely directed DD towards barrister and not solicitor. Definitely not commercial either. So if you do not know what you want, applications can be very tricky and one of the big areas of failure to get what you want is scattergun applications to anyone and everyone without tailoring what you have done to what they want.

Yes, many DC do not do work experience because they do not actually need to. The tests will pick them out. Others do because they actually do need to.

goodbyestranger · 13/02/2021 12:07

I was only teasing about the ball thing Percy. I'm well aware of the magnitude of organising these things (in fact DD1 did the same :)). It does demonstrate a range of skills tbf.

Xenia · 13/02/2021 13:33

My daughter is in one of these firms and got her TC without a vac scheme. However then and now it remains wise to try to get vacation scheme experience (and it's paid). My son and his friends are applying now. Some firms won't let you apply for the TC without doing the vac scheme first and some will. Either way it is useful for everyone to get some idea of what working in a law firm or any other job they might consider in advance

My daughter said the year before her they had ended up with some really boring trainees so they went all out for more interesting people the next year - some Count I think, someone very flamboyant and very gay, her - she's quite lively and others.

goodbyestranger · 13/02/2021 14:02

My father was a Count. Perhaps that's why the partners phoned me before I'd even got home to offer me a TC..... delusions that it was on merit :(

goodbyestranger · 13/02/2021 14:07

Although tbf I was actually terrible at concentrating on the job, I just really enjoyed interviews. I feel bad about that now. I only recall one dull trainee in my cohort but history doesn't relate what happened to him, he's certainly not a partner (despite telling me off once for wanting to leave early, saying that for him 'the firm came first').

PresentingPercy · 13/02/2021 15:09

Never be dull! That’s the answer then. We are all agreed.

chopc · 13/02/2021 15:25

And let's face it - the DC of people on this thread should have the nous to do the research themselves and be "in the know"!

(But being the type of parent I am, I would like to know so I know they are on the right path)

However I think Uni is a good time to let them loose and make a few mistakes or miss some deadlines . One of my friends from school said I had packed a lot into my life (in my early 30's). And I had. On reflection I wish I realised earlier on in life that it's not a race and there is a lot to be said for taking one's time .........

Xenia · 13/02/2021 18:23

I might have remembered the anecdotes incorrectly but it was along those lines... they had had a very dull year and wanted more interesting people (although I doubt that is what HR check for in the early stages......)

I suspect I might have been interesting when I changed jobs when I qualified because, amongst other things, unusually I had married at 21, had a baby at 22 whilst a trainee taking 2 weeks off to have her... etc. It certainly gave me a lot in common with clients and lawyers a lot older than I was so I could talk about things like childcare and schools rather than what your average 23 year old talked about in those days.

goodbyestranger · 13/02/2021 18:28

On reflection I wish I realised earlier on in life that it's not a race and there is a lot to be said for taking one's time.........

I completely agree chopc. It seems a shame to fill every uni vac with placements and internships and to obsess about how to look good for a career if that's to the detriment of enjoying uni and youth. When I was in the City I had a number of colleagues and friends who felt they'd dived the wrong way. Quite a few baled (myself included!). Percy's point is very valid, that work experience is useful in showing you what you don't like (I don't recall there being such a thing as work experience in my day!). But take these vac schemes: the young people are flattered and taken to smart suppers and cocktails and on flash excursions and so on - it's easy to get caught up in that glam side of City life in haste and then to repent at leisure.

goodbyestranger · 13/02/2021 18:33

Xenia such was the general perception of pressure on young women in City firms when I was a trainee, that I remember one colleague in her early twenties working on Thursday, having her first baby on Friday and then coming back to work on Monday. This was self-imposed, and the firm happened to be a particularly enlightened one and told her it was absurd but she insisted and became ill. Thank God things have changed.

OnTheBenchOfDoom · 13/02/2021 20:46

Ds has got his first choice Durham college which was South College. It is the new one from last year. He is thrilled. I think that cements it now for him.

However, sixth form have told all students not to firm any offers yet until they know how the assessments will be done in case students are way off.

mikeandike · 13/02/2021 21:16

DD also got her first choice - a very oversubscribed Bailey college, so think she will definitely be firming now as well Grin.

Beetlesand · 13/02/2021 21:34

Good news @OnTheBenchOfDoom and @mikeandike. Dd also got her first choice college and has been told to delay firming by 6th form until they have had further feedback at parents evening in March .