Another Path to Greatness - Part II

[BigWoollyJumpers]

Here we are.

I get the mixed feelings! Cross with pushy parents yet panicking wildly that I was somehow missing a trick and should be doing something more!

I had to up my pro-active ness when ds didn’t know about any open days as he got the wrong end of the stick (as usual) and thought that you had to be in receipt of benefits/first in family to go to university etc in order to go to an open day....

The whole family day out thing... the universities should really clamp down on this. Taking one adult is of course fine, but multiple siblings and nan - what are people thinking?!

DD's friend's parents offered to take them both to a University medicine open evening in 2019.

She reported back re other dc having their whole families come along. Word must have got out about the buffet meal being laid on which she said was delicious.

Her friend's parents reported back that the dc were taken off for various parts of the evening with parents instead being given talks about the costs and financing University.

I opted out of another University open day event, just funded DD making her own way there instead. She was 16 at the time (she is one of the younger ones in her year group) and had never done public transport by herself so I figured it was an excellent confidence gaining experience. That one had a separate timetable for parents which involved 3 out of the 4 sessions being "parents/carers free time to explore the city", so it was clear to me that parents were actually surplus to requirements.

I consider myself a very hands on parent but didn't realise they actually go to open days! I thought students just get on a train and go. I have asked DS if he can send me the link to the virtual Durham offer day but maybe this is also inappropriate 🤔

@chopc, I would think it unlikely that you will be able to log on separately to the offer holder day. It may be different at Durham, but my impression from the ones that DS2 has done virtually is that they know who is and is meant to be taking part. Certainly for the subject specific bits, participants' names have come up on screen, as in a normal Zoom meeting.

Definitely a difference between open days and offer days though (I hope). With DD1 either myself or DH took DD, so just two. When the offer days came up, (and her Oxford interview as well), she took herself off by train. One of the reasons she dropped Imperial was that all the other students on her course had their families with them. She thought that was a bit , and not her kind of people.

@IrmaFayLear however the feedback was useful for your DS as he was able to confirm it was the interview which let him down which supported his desire to have another crack

@SATSmadness as for applying next year. I would be tempted to encourage DS to do so if he gets 3xA* as you get compulsory pooling. However it is good to remember that this year Cambridge gave offers to the people they really WANTED on their courses irrespective of the limit on the offers.

As we are not privy to an interviewer's reception of a student - who knows if next year will be different. However if DC are going to take a year out anyway for other reasons, I think they should absolutely reapply - if you are not in it you can't win it

Yes, the feedback was useful - I was just saying that it was not extensive and very detailed. I seem to remember that ds’s worst interview turned out to be his best

The compulsory pooling is if you get through to interview . It’s not a straight pass in and who knows if they might change the policy now given that so many more candidates will presumably be holding top grades. That would be unfair to the next cohort.

It’s fine to have another go (ds has the badge) but as I always say, really, really, be into your second choice as I have seen so many casualties over the years on here and tsr who take rejection twice terribly. I drummed into ds that the odds are only marginally better for re-applicants.

Manchester had a virtual open day for students and a separate one for parents on a different day, so Dh and I logged onto the parental one. Ds had to forward an email to us and we registered from that. It was subject specific with lecturers plus students in their 2nd or 4th year, single and combined courses. It was very informative and far more appropriate for us, as parents, than the one Ds logged into. Answered chat questions as they appeared as they had 2 people doing that. It was really well done.

I think Ds has managed to log in for all virtual open days. Only Manchester offered the parents one. He feels like he benefited from them somewhat. Durham will be our first port of call as that is his firm choice, a visit to Manchester will have to come later. He has been consistent with his grades so Durham is a done deal.

@MarchingFrogs I wasn't talking about the live event! That would be as bad as parents taking up places in the lecture theater which should be for the DC's.

There is a recording you can look at later apparently. Will update if DS ever sends me the link

@OnTheBenchOfDoom that sounds lovely re: Manchester open day

I started looking at student finance and can't get my head around it. I am assuming the DC's on this thread will end up with well paying jobs which means they will need to repay the loan. With the interest rates being quite high, is it worth them taking a student loan when we can probably get a personal loan or be able to remortgage if necessary at a lower rate?

@chopc Martin Lewis on Money Saving Expert does a good breakdown of it.

www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes/

Look into what they will pay back and how much this will cost per year. Weigh up whether you think it is worth you taking on the additional burden to you, over what period and how much it will cost you. Would this be tuition fees or just covering the maintenance loan part of it all?

@chopc Ds was emailed 15th Feb for his Durham live event, it shows he attended and then you can click on a link on that page to take you through to the on demand events. I can't link it here as it is Ds's log in.

Durham say re parents - "We are counting on you to invite others! Help us spread the word. You can simply share the link to this page and they can register at their convenience."

So it isn't like you are asking for a pound of flesh from him

(On the loans issue I am unusual in having paid the fees and rent and my children have not had student loans. If the parents can afford it (and it is about the same or less than school fees so for about 15 - 20% of sixth form parents it just a continuation of school fees really) and if the child will earn a lot then I think it can be worth ensuring they have no student debt. However if eg they would always earn about £30k a year as a teacher, say, then I think the loan repayments are about £360 a year so cheaper to take out the loans.

@Xenia that was my understanding

@OnTheBenchOfDoom it is like getting blood out of a stone! Will try and pin him down at dinner

It is the attached table that got me thinking if it's worth taking the loan if you don't have to. Like Xenia says it is a lit5le cheaper than private sixth form

@Xenia my DH says that law firms give out their training contracts 2 years prior? So at what year of Uni should you be looking to get one? And what do you do in between getting the contract and starting it? If you have done a law degree assume you don't need to do a conversion course?

Only if you know off the top of your head as I know you are a family of lawyers and would be lawyers. If you don't know off the top of your head I can look it up

@chopc

MSE advises against taking on personal debt in place of students taking on loans.

If, for some reason, your dc were unable or did not wish to pursue a well paid career once they graduated then they would probably never need to pay back the loan but you as parents would be obliged to pay off the loan which you took out to pay the tuition fees.

Good point @SATSmadness

Great video if the young people have a spare hour. Not just about student finance

Interesting even Martin Lewis thought that STEM is the way forward. However what if DC are not interested in STEM subjects- should they do it just because?

Too late for year 13 DC but I do have two younger ones

Thanks for the link @chopc.

I guess the decision comes down to whether you see your DC as being in the top 17% of all students earnings wise. I have to say I was quite surprised by how low that figure is. I'd have guessed it being nearer 50%.

I think Martin gave a great lecture there - pitched well to his year 12 audience (and understandable to old Mumsnet lurkers too).

Another thing he said that touched a nerve was the relevance of getting "real life experience" jobs when a student to show you've got a good work ethic.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IncomeinntheUniteddKingdom

Another interesting read and was a little shocked to discover how unevenly wealth is distributed in UK

Sorry the attachment shows how much they will end up paying if they do get a high paying job

There is no sting in the tail here... the sting seems to be the £50,000 p.a lot who don't clear the debt quickly.

Personally I don't buy into Martin's suggestion that you're better off funding a house deposit for your DC than their Uni fees and living expenses.

'@MidLifeCrisis007*

I can see the logic there as I believe that student finance debt doesn't affect your ability to get a mortgage as much as some other types of debt.

However, student finance debt seems to have higher interest rate than mortgage finance currently.

I think there's an element of gambling/needing a crystal ball as we're all wise with hindsight as to what the best strategy might be. It's a much more difficult decision for DC who will probably end up as high earners and especially those with parents who would be able to fund them to quite an extent from savings or spare income.

I got an unpleasant surprise when i found that interest starts to be charged when the student finance loans are taken up so whilst the DC are studying, with no spare income to be making repayments, the interest is racking up.

Those students on a 5/6 year course must build up quite a bit of additional debt in the form of interest added.

I agree @MidLifeCrisis007 and exactly @SATSmadness ....... for some DC's it's not a debt but for high earning DC's it is. And ML thinks we should be happy they have received the education to be high earning in the first place

I think I have concluded that if we can afford to see the student through without any debt, it's better