So, EXETER UNI, how do you suggest my SHIELDING child

[Jux]

get into the Library to consult the texts they need in order to do their 2nd year work? When such texts are NOT available online?

Please?

Please explain how 2 hours a week of online f2f taught time is worth £9K? Especially without Library access.

OP I’ve PM’d you..

My DD is 2nd year History at Exeter and doing some pretty niche modules this term - books she needs are only available in print in the library. She emailed them yesterday and they have emailed back today to say they've managed to get one in e-book format for her and are posting all of the rest. Pleasantly surprised as she's asked about quite a few books!
Just waiting on tenterhooks now to see if her year abroad will go ahead next year ...

My daughter received an email today to say essential IT work will be being carried out and to expect distribution to the service, right in the middle of her online exams. Great timing

OP it's absolutely a bullshit situation - I'm in the same trap as your child myself (and I struggle reading on-screen).

It's hidden in the depths of our uni library webpages but if you message them ours will either post books out to you if you pay postage, or they'll scan and email chapters if needed. Not great if you need bits from all over a text but if you know you need a given chapter. They're also being quite obliging (considering I think our subject librarian is a bit of a knob) about trying to obtain e-book versions if you request them.

Other than that - I'll be honest - I've pirated the shit out of my reading lists, and I have a perlego subscription which has a lot of textbooks online and might be worth looking at a free trial of to see what she needs that might be on there.

Needing access to specific resources in the library is a reason for being able to return to campus early in our uni as well - although obviously campus is incredibly bloody miserable at the moment.

Have pm’d you op

My son doing finals in June at Bristol needed some books and was at home. His tutor was quite help ful and then his twin showed him a website with loads of books on which was also useful or extracts from books but it was a bit hit and miss.

I suppose 2 hours a week is not that unusual even in non covid times for some degrees which is why you say someone is reading history - as traditionally they the student did the work and study with the lecturers just there for a bit of the time. Obviously others subjects like medicine are different.

However I certainly feel students (and parents if they are paying) should be given back about 2/3rds of the fees and all the rents as they were conned really into going back in September often on the basis of lies in order to ensure universities survived and that the following year of new students was able to go the next year etc.

@Ifailed

I hadn't realised Exeter University Library monitors MN for feedback from student's parents?

🤣🤣🤣

If you want to address Exeter University, it's probably best to contact them directly.

What a ridiculous suggestion, that wouldn't achieve as much as ranting on MN.

Has she considered deferring? Obviously not ideal, but if the subject means so much to her, would she get a better experience by referring until she’s able to access it all better?

@GrumpyHoonMain

University students can use the libraries of other universities too, including the open university. They just need to contact their university for a special login / card.

SCONUL? Access is suspended.

www.sconul.ac.uk/sconul-access

My sympathies to all my fellow MNers who are or whose children are getting a raw deal from the Unis atm.

Thanks also for the many helpful suggestion and links people have given.

Yes, she is considering deferring; she just has to find out how that will affect the Student Loan etc. She's talked to a tutor, who agrees that deferment/break might be most helpful and useful way forward right now. DD's health is suffering too atm.

I've finished ranting once I'd posted the OP, and I'd like to say thanks to all of you for bearing with me.

It'll all be decided tomorrow, one way or another.

Unless she has already repeated a year, she will still be entitled to student finance for a restart (the formula is length of course plus a gift year, minus any previous years of study). However, the portion of any maintenance loan already paid, to which she is no longer entitled, will have to be repaid now, rather than when she starts earning, but if she has confirmed plans to return, it could be deducted from her loan once she returns, rather than demanded now.
www.gov.uk/student-finance-if-you-suspend-or-leave

To be fair, I was at Exeter 15 years ago and I only had 2 f2f contact hours a week anyway! Hugely depends on the subject (English Lit in my case) as to whether that's normal, not necessarily covid related. As to the library, your child should be getting in touch with the library to post or scan the texts required. Uni is about becoming self reliant and self motivated in your studies, it's not like school where a teacher holds your hand and chivvies you along the whole way.

thanks to the no students to go back rule

Which us a national government rule, not one imposed by individal universities.

The universities can let students return if they lack the relevant facilities at home. However, this is no help if either the individual student concerned, though lacking suitable facilities at home, has personally been advised to stay put for medical reasons, or the university is unable to arrange safe access to the on-site facilities required anyway.

I'd also recommend students looking at:

GoogleBooks
Hathi Trust
Project Gutenberg
Internet ARchive
British LIbrary

All of these (and many many more sites) have digitised, scanned, or photographed rare books materials.

Since March, I've also taught several modules in historical studies, introducing students to databases subscribed to by my institution (an RG at the opposite end of the country than Exeter) at huge expense (this is where a lot of the tuition fees go - to online publishers at 10s of thousands of pounds per year per database).

These are all there for students to use, but many of them hadn't explored the possibilities - they'd just thrown up their hands.

We all have to work this way now.

Over this last 10 months, without regular access to libraries essential to my work (I've had 2 x 4 hour stints in the British Library, travelling 3 hours each way each time) I've written a grant application worth 2 million, and most of a book. Both rely on on archival material, which I usually consult in hard copy. I've had to find my way through multiple archival databases and sources. It's doable, and there is assistance for students.

For example, subject librarians are there to assist students in navigating all of this. But a student needs to ask first.

@Jux

My sympathies to all my fellow MNers who are or whose children are getting a raw deal from the Unis atm.

Thanks also for the many helpful suggestion and links people have given.

Yes, she is considering deferring; she just has to find out how that will affect the Student Loan etc. She's talked to a tutor, who agrees that deferment/break might be most helpful and useful way forward right now. DD's health is suffering too atm.

I've finished ranting once I'd posted the OP, and I'd like to say thanks to all of you for bearing with me.

It'll all be decided tomorrow, one way or another.

If she can confirmation that her deferment is for health reasons, the SLC won't remove her entitlement to a grace year. HTH

My son cannot look at screens for long due to an eye problem. he sets an alarm every 40 minutes to go off and do something else. He would always go to a library and read physical books -that is how he works. The new system of 100% online is obviously particularly difficult for people in his position although I have said I will pay for any physical books and have spent at least £600 on printing in the last 12 months for the twins including a new printer and inks.

This weirdness on MN, that once someone is a legal adult it is preposterous for a parent to continue to care, assist, guide, parent... Such an odd way of looking at life and relationships.

Back in the late 1980s I had a whole term with NO f2f teaching scheduled at all during my degree.

I attended a wide range of other lectures (back when you just turned up (or not) and there were no registers) and asked various tutors for a one-off 1-1 discussing their specialism. And I read masses. And lay around in the sun with friends. Happy memories...

So the small amount of f2f wouldn't worry me.

As to the book problem. If these books are too precious / delicate to be let out of the library and relevant parts cannot be copied (which it sounds as if you don't yet know for sure), then I am not entirely sure what you think Exeter can do about this if a atudent can't visit? Surely shouting at the pandemic would be a more reasonable response than shouting at Exeter?

I do get how frustrating this must be, and the desire just to shout whatever, at anyone.

If these books are too precious / delicate to be let out of the library and relevant parts cannot be copied

Rare Books reading rooms, where such books can be read, are pretty COVID-safe environments, it would seem to me. Limited numbers, the librarian usually tells you where to sit, you always have to book a space, usually with a time limit, and now, universities require a mask.

You should always wash your hands before & after handling rare books or other archival material, anyway.

If you look on the Exeter website you'll see that students can take a COVID test any time, and are encouraged to do so. I remember reading about Exeter setting up this mass student/staff testing and wishing my own place would do the same.

@Xenia spurious inks off eBay are more then adequate and far cheaper than branded ones. It shouldn’t be costing you anywhere near that.

Dd has a free printer off gumtree, cartridges I’ve spent £20 on spurious ones and She has bought about a tenner’s worth of paper from Tesco.

However I certainly feel students (and parents if they are paying) should be given back about 2/3rds of the fees and all the rents as they were conned really into going back in September often on the basis of lies in order to ensure universities survived and that the following year of new students was able to go the next year etc.

I very much sympathise with students here, but the truth is that without government support, if we gave back 2/3 of the fees, then 2/3 of the staff would be gone by the time students got back to the university. That would probably mean the collapse of humanities at places like my RG university, as students would be left without the modules they signed up to and remaining staff would burn out. And as STEM is partly funded by fees from humanities students, STEM students would also be badly affected (yes, I know, unfair but how else would we got doctors if the govt will not cover the extra costs of these degrees?)

Half my modules have already had to be cancelled as my contract was cut in half to save money, and 4 colleagues already pushed into early retirement this year because of the extra costs of the pandemic. That's students losing out on teaching they thought they'd get when they signed up. The more money the uni loses, the more students will be affected.

The current situation is bad enough, but for students to find their department is going to have to be closed down in their third year would be disastrous.

We all work overtime, but if they sack me completely, then I can't help my students.

If parents on MN want to understand the REAL cost of their children's degrees, look at the international student fees for the courses your DC are studying.

The domestic £9k doesn't cover even the "cheapest" Arts degree at my university (a much sought-after RG university with an excellent research and teaching record).

Cairn I stocked up on manufacturer inks for the laser colour printer for their cost costing £200+ and then it broke and could not be repaired and as 10 years old we had to buy another one which cost about £262 plus inks to go with it. Then tried to sell the old (but new) inks in 3 places and failed even at the local printer ink shop never mind services on line that supposedly buy toner in its box. So yes I spent £600 on his ink and they are on a law course so vast amounts of paper needed. Anyway compared to the £6000 rent plus other costs for a course which is entirely on line the £600 for inks is neither here nor there!