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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Original poster

Some of our young people are half way through their degrees (2019/20 intake): lockdowns on repeat, light at the end of the tunnel with vaccinations (?) and the legacy of COVID-19

987 replies

NewModelArmyMayhem18 · 14/01/2021 16:01

Previous thread

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose is all I can say!

OP posts:
Benjispruce2 · 21/03/2021 09:42

I just don’t understand. It’s education so should be the same as schools.

Newgirls · 21/03/2021 11:25

It’s so open for interpretation too. What’s a ‘practical’ course? Doesn’t seem to apply to my dd course which is meant to have labs? They seem to be able to pick and choose 🤷‍♀️

Xenia · 21/03/2021 13:41

The problem is the two things - when it is something as simple as letting X business open but not Y kind of business and there is no justification and the rules are in a law (not guidance) litigation has been won. When a university decides to be more cautious than the law and the law does not actively say all students must be back and the fact they are stopping people coming back and never promised face to face this year then it would be harder to sue them for not providing in person lectures. I am hoping every restrictive measure will be lifted by 21 June and no restrictoisn at all then apply and we can move on but if they are going to have no in person face to face physical lectures other than for practical courses in September that will put some students off accepting places and this year some students will be less likely to accept vague promises as they know those came to naught last September I suppose so may be market forces will force the university into 100% face to face in person in a lecture hall courses.

simbobs · 21/03/2021 14:42

My niece is due to start in September but has yet to firm. I will be advising her to do so only on the basis of guaranteed f2f. That will help her choose.

RampantIvy · 21/03/2021 14:56

I don't think any university will offer any guarantees for F2F teaching. They don't have a crystal ball.

Newgirls · 21/03/2021 17:04

The problem simbobs is that last year they said they would offer a blend and that varied so much even within the same uni. Depts made their own decisions based on buildings/staffing etc. I would hope it goes much smoother from sept but it seems some unis are planning for blended again as it has some appeal to valuable overseas students and some staff prefer teaching from home. It’s hard to know what the students will be getting as they are not all transparent about it

MarchingFrogs · 22/03/2021 18:51

It may suit some overseas students, but DS2 has a 'virtual friend' (a young man who follows his art stuff on Instagram, not - as far as any of us is aware - a figment of his imaginationGrin) in the USA who is finding being an undergraduate at LSE from however many hours behind London a sore trial.

Newgirls · 22/03/2021 19:06

Marching - I’ve heard some Americans hate it too.

Let’s hope it’s more normal in sept 🙏

icanbewhatiwant · 22/03/2021 19:53

@Newgirls ds is doing biology. Apparently it isn't counted as practical. Ds is so fed up with watching the lecturer do all the practical stuff online. Then writing up as if he's done it himself.

Newgirls · 22/03/2021 20:01

Same here Ican

How can that be ok?

RampantIvy · 22/03/2021 22:05

It is so difficult for all students, but especially so for those who have practical elements in their degrees. My friend's DD is studying music. That must be so difficult for her, as well as any student studying the performing arts. It isn't just the scientists who are struggling.

icanbewhatiwant · 22/03/2021 22:17

@Newgirls he was meant to go on a trip to some salt marshes this month. But instead he had to research it and pretend they've been 😩

icanbewhatiwant · 22/03/2021 22:20

@RampantIvy yes I know. I'm sure there are lots of other hands on type degrees that are missing out. Some of them are counted as practical and science isn't one of them. Is it the same for music, I expect it is. I'm assuming practical will be anything medical, or veterinary science etc.

RampantIvy · 22/03/2021 22:26

I would have thought that all science degrees would have some lab work. DD's biomed course managed to fit in a F2F practical last week for the first time this year.

Benjispruce2 · 23/03/2021 06:40

A friend’s DD is studying Performing Arts and has had to take her dance classes on Zoom. Very hard to hit a beat when there’s a delay! Luckily they have now resumed in person, albeit in a mask.

Newgirls · 23/03/2021 08:41

Glad to hear dance is resuming.

I think there is a bit of spin going on. When I’ve mentioned it to people without uni age kids they assume they are all back and science etc is happening. Unis say ‘we are doing a blend’ but that is so open to spin - it can mean just one course doing f2f!

simbobs · 23/03/2021 08:58

My DS is home again and really struggling with one of his modules, taught in a way that is alien, and without opportunity to ask questions. This is really not a proper experience. The fact that some lecturers may prefer to work from home doesn't seem to fit the job requirements to me. Fair enough during the height of the pandemic but once society reopens then surely academia also has to go back to normal? I'm not sure what our DC are paying for, nor am I confident that some of them will actually have properly immersed themselves in their course content.

Newgirls · 23/03/2021 09:09

@simbobs

My DS is home again and really struggling with one of his modules, taught in a way that is alien, and without opportunity to ask questions. This is really not a proper experience. The fact that some lecturers may prefer to work from home doesn't seem to fit the job requirements to me. Fair enough during the height of the pandemic but once society reopens then surely academia also has to go back to normal? I'm not sure what our DC are paying for, nor am I confident that some of them will actually have properly immersed themselves in their course content.
Absolutely

Yet unis are saying they are prepping for more online in sept. I don’t hear anything about prepping for f2f with testing regimes in place etc. It’s so odd.

Our secondary had one positive case in sixth form out of 3800 tests! Why can’t unis do that for students and staff alike and be ready for action in sept.

Cookerhood · 23/03/2021 09:51

DS has had no f2f since March last year. His is a science related course with a lot of practical skills which are part of the course accreditation. Goodness knows how they can catch up & still graduate with the required skills.

Baytreemum · 23/03/2021 10:08

It’s not good for students studying ’dry’ subjects either - my DD misses lectures where she had an opportunity to see and meet other students on her course. Being stuck in reading reading reading is dire....

Cookerhood · 23/03/2021 10:16

True, it's difficult for all of them.

fiveoldteddies · 23/03/2021 10:20

No, I remember when DC1 had just started his humanity course, how he really enjoyed discussing obscure topics with likeminded students...

Newgirls · 23/03/2021 10:48

@fiveoldteddies

No, I remember when DC1 had just started his humanity course, how he really enjoyed discussing obscure topics with likeminded students...
Yes meeting face to face before during and after a tutorial is key in any subject.

Zoom is fine but not equal.

user1497207191 · 23/03/2021 13:10

@Newgirls

The problem simbobs is that last year they said they would offer a blend and that varied so much even within the same uni. Depts made their own decisions based on buildings/staffing etc. I would hope it goes much smoother from sept but it seems some unis are planning for blended again as it has some appeal to valuable overseas students and some staff prefer teaching from home. It’s hard to know what the students will be getting as they are not all transparent about it
The bigger problem is that some Unis promised "blended" even in the full knowledge their lecturers weren't going to be on campus, and hadn't been on campus since last Easter. My son is doing a Maths degree, so no labs etc., yet he was conned to going to Uni last September on the same "promise" of blended learning. His lecturers weren't even on campus so even blended learning was never going to happen for his course. There was no F2F even in October before the lockdowns etc - how could there have been? The lecturers weren't there! There's a massive difference between Unis having to stop F2F because of the worsening covid situation/lockdowns etc last Autumn, as against them never even starting F2F at the start of term before the lockdowns/restrictions.
user1497207191 · 23/03/2021 13:17

I can understand Uni's having a "plan B" to continue online lectures etc in October if there are ongoing restrictions/lockdowns, etc.

But what I can't understand is why their "Plan A" isn't normality from the end of September onwards, i.e. face to face tutorials and lectures in lecture theatres as the default. What justification do they have for not planning for a return to normal??

As someone said above, the preference of the lecturers shouldn't dictate that they can work from home if they wish. That's a massive dis-service to the students. Unis and lecturers need to be working towards being back on campus in September and doing the normal teaching/lectures etc as they did pre Covid.

Unis are going to face a lot of criticism if it's not "business as usual" in Unis, if everything else is operating as normal, i.e. shops, pubs, restaurants, holidays, etc. Assuming vaccinations work, nearly all adults will have been offered both jabs by the end of September, so there's just no excuse.

(Yes, if mutations arise, vaccinations don't work, etc then that's different, but Unis can't just carry on "online only" just in case - they have to plan for a normal return!).

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