Do you need 4 A-Levels to get into Cambridge

[MathWhizz]

DD would eventually like to apply to do Economics at Cambridge University. She has just started A-Levels in Maths, Further Maths, Economics and History. She seems to think that she needs to take 4 A-Levels to have a chance of getting into Cambridge. However, on the Cambridge University website, she only needs 160 points which is achievable with 3 A-Levels. She is struggling to cope with the workload from A-Level History on top of the other 3 subjects. Could she drop a-level History and still get into Cambridge to study Economics?

@Annebronte

I’ll say it again: Further Maths is only usually taken as one of four A levels. I agree that Cambridge don’t require four, but three including Further Maths won’t be good enough. It’s not a stand-alone subject: it’s an addition to Maths.

My daughter is a 4th year Cambridge MEng student.

Her A levels are maths, fm and physics. She did comp sci to AS (in last year that was possible) but was advised to go for quality not quantity.

For hers, and some other subjects , A stars in FM and physics are nearly always what's essential, plus the maths of course.

If the course is one which indicates FM is in effect required if the school offers it then Don't drop the Fm!

Try googling FOI requests for Cambridge Econ entry for 2020 and 2019. There are many with a lot of details about who got offers and what ALevels they had.

Then you can draw your own conclusions based on info from the new style A levels and Cambridge admissions tests.

Also is there any chance of doing one of them as an AS?

Bigger concern would be why is she finding doing 4 a levels so challenging? If she is struggling with 4 a levels she will really struggle at Cambridge.

For economics, FM is only 'required if available' at Magdalene. Some of the others specify that of you do FM then they need to get an A*.
So, for economics, it's arguable that FM may not be the wisest choice for some.

But the 'FM only as a fourth subject' mantra is simply wrong for engineering, and probably some of the other stem subjects.

https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/files/publications/economicssubjecttrequirements0.pdf

@Solidaritea

Bigger concern would be why is she finding doing 4 a levels so challenging? If she is struggling with 4 a levels she will really struggle at Cambridge.

Agree with this. It may not be required but everyone I know who went there (myself included) did 4. I see a pp has said their child only did 3 of which FM was one but I’d have thought that was unusual. DH did 4 (maths, further maths, music and french) and his offer was 3As not including further maths (ie they ignored that one and he had to get an A in all the others). I wouldn’t drop History for an economics applicant either.

I see a pp has said their child only did 3 of which FM was one but I’d have thought that was unusual.

Not exceptionally so. Though as I said, she did an AS, and she also did a very relevant EPQ.

I suppose it depends what else the OP's child has going in. My DS dropped the 4th A level after AS because in common with all his contemporaries he had a job alongside studies. It effectively knocked out weekend studying. He had a girlfriend too - maybe that also played as a factor!!

Maybe those with 4 A levels may be somewhat more likely to get an offer than those doing 3, though it may depend on what other stuff they're doing, in particular demonstrating engagement with their subject.

But if they do 4 then a Cambridge offer for some courses will probably be based on all 4, with no discount in the number of Astars required. So it's not just a matter of 'will I still get two astars in the right subjects and an A in one of the others' - it will be Astars in the right subjects and As in both of the others. (Or in a few cases 3A stars and an A...)

My DD read Chinese at Cambridge, she did 3 a levels English, French and History ( dropped her law A level after 1 year as per allowances and protocol at that time, 4 years ago) BUT she did an EPQ (Extended Project Question) on the education system in China). She was asked about this at interview and got in. So, at least then, she only needed 3 A levels but with a bit extra ( tbh the EPQ was ALOT of work, but no exam at the end).
Good luck to your DD

@ErrolTheDragon I believe you are right. It is therefore a risk because enough have to make the grade so to speak on 4 A levels.
IMO dropping one and doing an EPQ associated with your subject is a better idea. Subject subject subject. That's what they like!

I only had 3 A levels and went to Cambridge. I'd say it was 50;50 in my year for 3 a levels vs 4 A levels.
I was told it's much better to have 3 excellent grades than 4 good ones. I am also one of those lucky people that interview very well.
Good luck to your DD and remember Cambs isn't the be all and end all

Ho @MathWhizz! I work with schools and several of our alumni have read Economics at Cambridge. ... The answer is this: it depends!

Most really do notice the change in workload compared to school; some don't. Some do only 3 A levels, excluding Further Maths, and yet adapt well. Most of the boys we know have STEM subjects only plus Economics at A Level. They do not like 'essay' subjects but they do ok.

In every case, they have to grow academically and grow fast. Developing general maturity helps, too.

In your position, I would pick three colleges and write to their Directors of Studies for Economics: say Trinity, Sidney Sussex and Newnham. Ask them for their guidance. They will be less busy from late January and happy to help.

In your position, I would pick three colleges and write to their Directors of Studies for Economics: say Trinity, Sidney Sussex and Newnham. Ask them for their guidance. They will be less busy from late January and happy to help.

Yes - except (I'd hope obviously) it should be the potential applicant not the parent who does this.

Yes - except (I'd hope obviously) it should be the potential applicant not the parent who does this.

My thoughts, as well - although, of course, the person receiving the query has no way of knowing the 'status' of the sender - unless they happen to say that they are not actually a potential applicant themselves. But yes, if it's information important to the actual applicant, they should be proactive enough to send the email.

The issue with economics is that some well regarded courses (Cambridge, LSE, UCL and Warwick) have very heavy maths contents. It is really useful to have a good grounding at school, so ideally you would have taken FM. And if FM is a struggle perhaps these courses are not the right ones, and Oxford (E&M or PPE) might be a better fit.

But economics is also a social science and involves essays, so history is perfect. And it is a good idea to take economics, not least to be sure it is a subject you want to study for 3 years. The econ A level syllabus has apparently improved a lot and appears better regarded by Universities. It used to be very dull.

The thing to remember is that the competition for places on top economics courses can be brutal. You don't need 4 A levels, and Universities recognise that not everyone has access to FM or to taking four. However if both are an option, and can be done without dropping grades, it is well worth considering. Not least because you would arrive more used to juggling workloads, and would not be playing catch up on maths, economics or essay skills.

My thoughts are 3 is fine and consider dropping the FM rather then the history as doing history along with maths would show a breadth. But only Cambridge - and specific colleges - can really answer this question. The content of courses at other universities is irrelevant as is the A Levels of students doing other undergrad courses.

As someone who did Economics at Cambridge, if she can't cope with those four I would be concerned she wouldn't cope at Cambridge. That said if she's going to drop, she should drop FM. Maths + FM is rarely considered as two A-levels (fairly). Also, if she wants to do economics she should be finding maths A-level relatively easy. Economics degrees are maths heavy.

Only consider dropping the further maths. As others have said above.

To put my point on maths in context, I would say I was in the bottom half of my cohort on maths ability. I got an A in FM. That's the pace she'd be expected to be working to.

I read Economics at Cambridge and the only one of those 4 I would consider dropping is FM. Definitely don't drop economics - the advice on Cambridge website says that too but you'll be asked to show your enthusiasm for Economics and if you didn't do the A level when it was an option it won't look good and it's also useful. History is useful, assuming modern history, for the essay based elements and history / politics options. If she does this would then look at what individual colleges say about further maths or go for colleges where the Director of Studies for Economics is not in a maths based field of economics. I did it without maths or FM but most people had both and economics I knew and maths is now compulsory.

OP here (had slight name change since original post!).

Thank you all so much for your thoughts. It is much appreciated.

Joining as ds has just said he's aiming for Oxbridge, he's year 11 now.

Some of the information on this thread about Further Maths is outdated. It's not offered as a subject to pupils not already doing A level maths, but it is significantly harder, and is definitely treated as a discrete subject rather than a fancy adjunct. See this list for required subjects for Trinity College, Cambridge. www.trin.cam.ac.uk/undergraduate/applying/a-level-subject-combinations/