Philosophy- where and what A-levels

[Pumpkintopf]

DD (15) will be sitting her GCSEs this year. Sadly, despite being predicted high grades she claims not to actively enjoy most of her subjects, with the notable exception of Religious Studies.

She has been having a look at uni options as needs to make a decision on A-level choices soon. She is interested in Philosophy and I can see her really enjoying that as an area of study. We ran through the sample logic questions on the Cambridge website for instance and she seems to have a natural aptitude for logical reasoning and argument (in my biased maternal opinion).

A-level wise, she is leaning towards Eng Lit, Eng Lang, RS and Psychology with a view to dropping one, possibly eng lit as she likes the sound of that least.

I know that (as a sample) Cambridge, Nottingham, and the uni choices website suggest there are no 'needed' subjects for philosophy as such but do the options listed sound sufficiently academic and robust to get her a place at a top tier university? Will not doing maths be a disadvantage?

And uni wise, have had a look at the league tables but any insight would be very welcome!

Thanks so much.

DD is studying PPE at Oxford with history, maths & English Language at A level. Encourage her to think about an EPQ on a related topic and take a look at the Oxford University Press A Short Introduction To Philosophy to see if it continues to spark her interest.

My DD was planning to do philosophy and was interested in the course at Newcastle plus I think St Andrews is supposed to be good. She is doing RE/Ethics/Philosophy, Politics and English and these seem to be a good fit together.

Would she be willing to consider history? It's more interesting at A level.

My DD is doing Philosophy at Oxbridge. I think the most important thing is to do is "serious" academic subjects. My understanding is that Eng Lang is a bit borderline from a Russel Group perspective - but I may well be out of date. It would be worth checking out the Russel Group website which lists A level subjects and how they rate them. The other choices all look good. It probably helps to do RS, as it will make the transition to the degree a bit easier. My DD did two humanities and Chemistry - and the analytical rigour and maths of the latter was probably helpful, but not essential.

She needs to consider what kind of philosophy she wants to do - continental philosophy or analytical philosophy; very few places in Britain do a mix (Warwick does, or instance), - something for her to think about when choosing the place to study. I think Cambridge is entirely analytical philosophy; I think it's really uninteresting

@Ellmau that's interesting- the gcse in history has really put her off so it would be worth exploring the course content at A-level perhaps.

@istherelifeafter40 hmm! Not sure she knows the difference yet but that's worth knowing and looking into further, interesting, thanks.

Thanks all, this is good advice!

They don't do facilitating subjects anymore. Their advice is to look at the entry requirements for any degree courses you are interested in and then pick accordingly. Durham, York, Warwick & Oxford had no issue with DD taking English Language.

DS is doing PhD in Philosophy. His A levels were Maths Physics and RS with History at AS (as that existed then!). He did undergrad and Masters at Warwick and said that those without good Maths did struggle on the compulsory logic papers. They were a bit fazed by having to get to grips with the software and expressing concepts in an algebraic way. But as others have said, it depends on the areas your DD is interested in.

What "chitchattery" is saying: this would be analytical philosophy, but it's not the only kind of philosophy; so don't let you daughter be put off

I'm trying to understand the difference between 'analytic' and 'continental' philosophy- Wikipedia is not helping me much! Is the former more focused on logical examination of specific issues and questions and the latter more 'all encompassing' with focus on the larger questions of existence?

@istherelifeafter40 Indeed. He is doing metaphysics. He’s not massively impressed by continental philosophy but as you say it is a very broad subject. I do think you need to “analytical” in the more usual sense of the word to enjoy philosophy. He says the key is wanting to engage with topics in detail in a structured way and wanting to “solve” the questions that are being asked. He teaches first years and feels that those who succeed are those capable of critically engaging with problems and formulating answers.

Analytical philosophy is based on the analysis of language (it's a linguistic philosophy at heart). Largely founded by Wittgenstein who himself was a very interesting thinker, of course - there is quite a fun film by Derek Jarman called Wittgenstein you might like to watch.

Wittgenstein tried to find a certain formal approach to language to make sure we all speak about the same thing when we speak about something (in order to be able to say the first thing about anything, to establish the grounds).

But Wittgenstein himself came to the conclusion that as humans play language games, it is impossible to ensure that one word or a phrase or a text, so to speak, will mean one thing only for all and in all contexts.

in my opinion, and I am not an analytical philosopher, analytical philosophy is all about taking the creative side out of language and trying to turn it into a systematic, logical machine.

Continental philosophy just accepts that all philosophy is expressed in language and we as such can never be sure that this level of language does not interfere in our thinking; we think in language. But it's possible to accept it and move on, and think about different things, not only about how we think in language. Continental philosophy can be used to think many things therefore, not only those related to logic and language

I am sure I am not doing justice to analytical philosophy here, but I am sure that if I only encountered analytical philosophy when I was 18, I would be completely turned off, away from taking altogether. Because if only that is thinking, that is too restrictive

If your DD doesn't necessarily like maths and logic, but likes the philosophical side of RS, she might enjoy continental philosophy more; so should choose a place to study where at least both are represented

misspelling in my earlier post - not from talking, from thining

I am not sure of the virtue of doing Eng Lang and Eng Lit. Whilst technically it is allowed, it is rare.

If she dropped Eng Lit, I think her choices could be a little limiting - that said, the subject snobbery does seem to be dying a little bit. (I did notice one subject - a different one!- earlier when I was browsing making no appearance whatsoever on a three tier list for Leeds, mind : not in their acceptable, OK, or no list! So some unis are still judgemental.)

The Eng lIt sticks out as a good one there for research and extended essay based skills (and it has coursework), the RS will test analytical and discursive skills. Eng Lang is very analytical; some find it dry. Not sure what the psychology adds to the mix for philosophy?

KCL has a good reputation for philosophy and has an interesting degree that combines philosophy and law.
www.kcl.ac.uk/philosophy/undergraduate

Otherwise she might be more drawn to degrees which combine philosophy and theology
www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses-listing/philosophy-and-theology

An ideal A level combination for philosophy would be an analytical essay subject (English Lit or history), RE or philosophy and maths.

Thanks piggy and sendsummer - this was my concern. I think the psychology choice is purely being driven by not having enjoyed her gcse choices and wanting to try something different- of course, she may not like psychology either!!

I agree she should take another look at history for A-level. Maths may be a tough sell...but I hear you, those subjects would be ideal indeed, and some of the Oxford philosophy plus options make it clear you need Maths at grade A at A level.

Dd is year 12 and doing RS at A Level, alongside Psychology and History. She's interested in Psychology for uni and as a career, but I noticed quite a few unis (including Oxford and Durham) do Psychology and Philosophy joint degrees. I mentioned them to dd as she finds the RS A Level very easy and has always enjoyed the subject so I thought she might like to keep both going.

So I would say that Psychology must be a good subject to do alongside RS, as they clearly 'go together' at degree level.

I stand corrected crazy : I can see they both deal with the mind in some way!

Yes, that's what I was thinking piggy! I'm not sure there's necessarily overlap but there's definitely something about both which would appeal to a particular sort of person, like my dd! Whereas I guess there's a different sort of overlap/similarity between say Psychology and Biology.

Dd has had good offers from Exeter Nottingham so far (philosophy/theology). She is doing English lit, Classical Civilisation and RS. Plus an epq. Predicted 3 x As plus A in EPQ

Thank you, this is useful to know! FWIW I spoke to one of the Cambridge admissions team today- they advised that Lit would be better than Lang but that might be based on her wanting to do psychology and RS, both of which they said were fine, as opposed to say history which would perhaps be more of an essay subject like English lit?

No, I suspect that is just their old fashioned subject bias!