DS pondering oxbridge in afew years- top tips?

[fuschia2000]

DS coming up to GCSEs so I appreciate this is premature, he's passionate about mathematics and computer sciences - wondering your thoughts/ advice / guidance/ pointers on the process overall / on things we should consider / any great websites or forums etc etc

Thanks so much

Not premature at all. Presumably he's doing his best to achieve the best possible GCSE grades?

Maths is well outside my area of expertise, so all I can say is encourage him to explore as widely and deeply as he can. You'll know whether he'll have to do this independently or whether he'll get plenty of help from his school.

(And, of course, ensure he doesn't lose sight of other universities ...)

Look carefully at a level subject choices - a school with strong further maths teaching is important.

Does he do the maths challenges?

There's a lot of info and guidance on the uni/course websites themselves - seems obvious but it's surprising how many people don't seem to have a good look at them first.

That's true Errol - it's always a delight, trawling through a subject page, to find a suggested reading list.

Really wish I could be applying now (rather than in the 80s!) with all the wealth of material they make available online.

OP your DS would be well advised to really begin to familiarise himself with both the undergraduate and the research areas of both universities' sites. He'll get an idea of what they're each currently focussing on and how they approach the subjects he's interested in. Pretty soon he should be able to gauge exactly which of the two places he actually wants to apply to. (Or he might decide on somewhere else entirely!)

The UCAS site is also an astonishingly helpful gateway to information on universities and courses. Pre-GCSE is an ideal time to start reading through it all and following up the advice therein.

There's also this, recently published, written by an Oxford mathematician. londonpublishingpartnership.co.uk/why-study-mathematics/

Just in case you haven't already heard about this website: nrich.maths.org/secondary

Sounds obvious but do a lot of Maths! Different Maths, UKMT challenges, summer schools, read, watch on line lectures and practice MAT questions DS started practicing for the admissions test 6 months in advance. Ths best way of achieving an interview is to do well in the MAT

Thanks so much for all your thoughts and comments, really appreciated 🙏

His current grades are going great, predicted misty 9s, we are also engaging with extra curricular, eg d of e, drama, football, voluntary work, he has taken part in maths challenges and is doing some online enrichment during lockdown.

We will start taking a look at the course details online,

A beginners question - do the different colleges run different courses or is it a central course ? !!

Yes We will also look at other universities with strong maths departments/ computer sciences etc.

A beginners question - do the different colleges run different courses or is it a central course ? !!

Subjects are offered by departments, which are university-wide. Lectures are run by departments. Your Director of Studies will be in your own college. Smaller group teaching (supervisions at Cambridge, tutorials at Oxford) are generally offered by your own college, but you may also have supervisors or tutors in other colleges.

Everything about the organisation of teaching at each university is available on their websites - honest!

(Should have said 'smaller group or one-to-one teaching' ...)

Its one Maths dept and tutors from different colleges. If he's really focused on Oxford I wouldn't worry too much about any extra curricular, concrete on super curricular Maths. They really ate mor bothered about anything other than passion for the subject. DS had one line in his PS than was mor about Maths and in all his interviews he only had one question that was not Maths!

Sorry, fat phone fingers!

It's true he doesn't need the extra curricular stuff for his application - but it's as well to have some hobbies/interests/what have you to carry with you into undergraduate life. Both Cambridge and Oxford can feel achingly lonely if you have no resources for finding entertainment.

I don't think the OP has indicated which of the two places her DS prefers, HuaShan.

It's worth looking at the various Oxford college outreach twitter feeds. I can't remember the name of it now but there is one which went through supercurricular ideas for all subject areas, useful for all uni applications, not just Oxford and Cambridge.

They'll expect him to have read broadly around his subjects, off his own back.

They'll expect him to have read broadly around his subjects, off his own ba[t]

You say that as if it's a bad thing, waltzingparrot. The OP has already said her DS is passionate about his chosen subjects and involved in super curricular activities, so ...

They will expect him to be “teachable” and have something to bring to the course, such as his enthusiasm and excellent grades, but ideas of what he wants to do with his future. These are things that will be evaluated in an interview.

Extracurricular will be irrelevant for an Oxbridge application unless applying as an organ or choral scholar. It's all about the supra, scores on MAT or STEP and gcses within their context of the school at which they are taken. I am afraid to say 9 x A* and 2 x A gave DS a minus score for his Gcses.

It's also worth looking at this: t.co/BjatjumZ5J?amp=1

And this is the twitter account with all the supercurricular ideas I was trying to think of: twitter.com/UnivStaircase12

The extra-curricular stuff absolutely does matter too - not a massive amount, but universities and colleges like to recruit well rounded students who will contribute to the life of the university.

Oxford tutors don't care about extracurriculars, just talent in and passion for their subject.
Saying this as oxford grad who worked in access while I was there (supporting applicants, particularly those from less privileged backgrounds).
Good luck!

@cologne4711

It's also worth looking at this: t.co/BjatjumZ5J?amp=1

And this is the twitter account with all the supercurricular ideas I was trying to think of: twitter.com/UnivStaircase12

The extra-curricular stuff absolutely does matter too - not a massive amount, but universities and colleges like to recruit well rounded students who will contribute to the life of the university.

As @Wwydiywm has confirmed, the extra-curriculars don't count. They did many years ago (when some of us were applying ourselves), when it did seem to be as much about what you would bring to college life.

But when it came to my DS applying a year ago, that was the first thing I had to "unlearn" - your wider reading / extra study of your subject is important, but all that "D of E, music, sport..." stuff really doesn't feature. DS even deleted a paragraph on those things from his Personal Statement to meet the word limit! (He's now at Oxford).

I'm guessing part of the reason is to avoid favouring candidates from certain backgrounds, the ones who traditionally would "fit in", and have access to music tuition, trips to exotic places etc.

Maths academics especially (the subject I studied at Cambridge) are really only interested in whether you are a whizz doing maths.

Great replies - thanks so much ! Off to read the links now , 🙂

Hi fuschia2000
I would recommend visiting both cities (and other Uni places) for a short break in the summer to explore the towns and facilities of each. Join a tour of the colleges/city if you can (covid permitting)as this will enable your DS to get a feel for the place even if it’s not the actual collage he applies for.
My DS1 attended Uni (non-Oxbridge) open days a year early as he needed to get his head around whether he wanted to apply.
Once in VIth form suggest DS requests a practice interview with former students who are at Oxbridge. My DS2 found this useful.
Best wishes

@fuschia2000 Not premature at all! It is worth being aware of the various Maths admissions tests going around (TMUA and MAT are taken in November of year 13, and STEP 2 and 3 are taken in June of year 13). Quite a lot of universities accept TMUA or MAT for a reduced A level offer (basically a safety net for a third non-maths A level grade slip) - they use to take STEP 1 results as well, but STEP 1 has been discontinued :-(

In the mean time, there are lots of problems on NRICH (nrich.maths.org - he might like to send in some solutions to the live problems nrich.maths.org/14754 which would give him practice at communicating mathematically - just as important as getting the right answer!). It might be worth following nrich on twitter - or signing up to the newsletter - so that you know when new solutions go live (There will be some live KS5 problems going live in the middle of December which he might like a bash at).

He might like to also look at Parallel which is a series of things to work through from Simon Sing parallel.org.uk/. The most recent one for year 11 is about fractals and they are a mixture of problems and videos etc.

In year 12 he might like to start working through the STEP Support Programme foundation assignments (which are not just for STEP prep but are also useful for preparing for mathsy things at ant university - maths.org/step.

Hope this helps! Happy to discuss further (I'm in outreach for Maths at Cambridge University and am a past Secondary Maths teacher). Also happy for pms.

For maths or computer science you need maths and further maths A levels and obviously A* in both. So find a sixth form that offers FM. Although some unis will not specifically state FM it will put him at a disadvantage because lots will have it.

A computer science interview at Cambridge is predominantly maths as some or many students will not have studied CompSci before and Oxbridge or any RG doesn't want CS just maths and FM. You sit "CTMUA" which is actually TMUA but Cambridge pay for the test on your behalf if you have applied to to CS.

They don't care if you have a DoE gold or are in a drama class, they want to see what stuff you are engaging in to show your love of the subject. That would be anything locally offered, online, masterclasses and summer schools. Basically everything above and beyond your A levels.

To paraphrase an admissions person at Cambridge we want to know that you will get out of bed when it is raining on a winter morning and walk 20 minutes to the lecture and then complete the work we set because you love the subject you have applied for.

And it is never too early to look into this stuff. Ds2 is watching his year 13 brother go through all this. He is in year 10 and has already been on UCAS looking up what A levels if any he needs for law.