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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Questions about Biology/Zoology at uni

69 replies

BlueMarigold · 14/10/2020 06:40

We have started looking at unis for DD (Year 12) so she will know where to apply next year.

Does anyone know about Bangor and Aberystwyth and what they are like? She is very interested in Bangor but I am worried because I read in the news that Bangor are making staff cuts.

What is happening at the universities this year with regards to field trips? Are they just cancelled?

Does anyone have experience of their child doing Zoology or Biology that can offer some advice and reassurance? How are they getting on at the moment during this pandemic?

TIA

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JumpingFrogs · 15/10/2020 08:53

DS is loving Zoology at Southampton. He was offered ABB but got in with BCC. In my experience most unis don't really look at the personal statement until offers have been made. He went to offer holders days before narrowing his 5 choices down to two, and at that stage generally had a meeting with a tutor where it was evident they had seen his personal statement. He had not done anything particularly "exotic" but his statement was straight from the heart. Unis will look at personal statements once results are out, and many, many applicants are offered places informed by personal statements even if they missed the offer grades. DS considered Biology but decided to follow his heart, in the knowledge that employment may be less well paid. The first year of most courses runs parallel to and is very similar to Biology, so there world be opportunities for your dd to change her mind about which subject to major in.

BlueMarigold · 15/10/2020 09:27

Thank you @JumpingFrogs that is very reassuring!

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Naem · 15/10/2020 09:43

Thanks Ginfordinner I did check the website - they have effectively two courses (each with or without a placement year, but the entry requirements are the same). Both require Biology and a second science. The MBiolSci requires AAA which they will lower to AAB, if there is a + B in the EPQ or + B in Core Maths (for medicine, it is AAA, which they will lower to AAB if an A or A* in the EPQ, so a slight difference, but not much).
For the BSc - it is AAA, including two sciences (not Biology) OR AAB, including Biology and a second science, AAB, including two sciences (no Biology) + B in the EPQ; ABB, including Biology and a second science + B in the EPQ; AAB, including two sciences (no Biology) + B in Core Maths; ABB, including Biology and a second science + B in Core Maths.
Given that there is no question that DD will do Biology, and probably Geography as well (not sure about third or an EPQ) and she is not keen to take maths, according to the website she needs to aim for AAA for the MSci and AAB for the BSc. Pretty similar requirements to medicine (although with medicine, it is difficult even to get an interview).

Naem · 15/10/2020 09:44

I am wondering though to what extent (unlike with medicine), these are just headline requirements, and whether they get lowered if missed.

JumpingFrogs · 15/10/2020 09:51

@Naem

I am wondering though to what extent (unlike with medicine), these are just headline requirements, and whether they get lowered if missed.
I think that is very much the case for most universities. Not all kids are straight A students, and I have been told that A level grades are nor necessarily a strong predictor of performance on a degree course. Sometimes you get a gut feeling that a particular uni or course is right for you. DS visited Nottingham, which had given him a good offer, and absolutely hated it, whereas his sister really liked it.
Ginfordinner · 15/10/2020 10:13

Naem if your daughter is capable I would suggest chemistry as the third option. Even at A level DD found that she did better than her peers at A level biology because she could only answer a couple of the questions on her A level paper because she was doing chemistry as well. Her non chemistry friends couldn't do those questions.

As I said earlier chemistry is a relly good science to take alongside biology. My niece has a good zoology degree and has both chemistry and biology A levels. She hasn't been able to find related work since leaving university 5 years ago though.

bravotango · 15/10/2020 10:29

I would actually say Maths is better to take alongside biology at A Level!

Also agree with universities offering below requirement - my brother recently got into Glasgow (2018) with ABC onto an AAA course.

Naem · 15/10/2020 10:44

@Ginfordinner - my daughter is capable, but hypersensitive, in the sense that she doesn't cope very well with teachers who are shouty or difficult. She was thinking about chemistry until she got her chemistry teacher this year. She comes home in tears after every chemistry lesson, can't learn, because she is so scared about being shouted at in class, and we are basically fixing up her notes at home (she is scared of being shouted at because she can't get them down fast enough, and they are required to copy), and then teaching the subject matter . The chemistry teacher teaches A level chemistry, so if she stays at her current school, there is no way she can take chemistry.

The "second worst" teacher is maths, although she has got better since her baby settled down (she was absolutely impossible and sarcastic when she first got back from maternity leave). Comments about "this is pathetic from what is supposed to be a set 1 class", and constantly threatening to send students down (I keep telling DD that the school rules don't allow that, to change sets they need to have a setting test) really does not make it a great environment for DD to learn in. She was DDs worst teacher last year, but now with the chemistry teacher, it becomes all relative.
DD is very capable, but she really needs a warm supportive environment to flourish, otherwise she just freezes up and doesn't learn. Luckily her new Geography teacher is brilliant at this (the old one was also not great, but again relative) and in general the English department seem so much better at being positive and making learning an enjoyable experience. She keeps toying with doing English, but more because the teachers are nice.

BlueMarigold · 15/10/2020 10:51

I have had similar thoughts to you @Naem and our children sound like they have similar goals. My DD decided on Psychology as her 2nd science

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Naem · 15/10/2020 11:08

Yes @BlueMarigold, that is why I jumped on (and half highjacked - hope it is OK) this thread, as your DD sounds like mine in two years time. Has vaguely wondered about psychology - although she is a lot less interested in people than animals. She has also wondered about photography (she is doing it for GCSE). Or a language (she is doing two MFL, she is really quite strong at languages).

BlueMarigold · 15/10/2020 11:29

Hi @Naem My DD is quite interested in Animal behaviour so Psychology seemed useful and she really likes it so far. She is doing Art so similar to Photography I guess.

I think the ideal three A-Levels would be Biology, Chemistry and Maths but my DD didn’t want to do that. Art takes up the most time but she likes it so doesn’t mind.

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Tickledtrout · 15/10/2020 11:36

Personal statements- they're (mostly have my doubts about Durham) not reallyinterested in that extra curricular stuff but in the thinking. If the university she likes has a sustainability research institute ( for example) or is leading something on disease research then she can read an article ( even a university press release) and link it to her studies..." Having studied diseases in A level biology, I am increasingly interested in preventing disease spread in wild populations. Recent research into.(name it).. made me realise the importance role of animal biology in supporting blah blah.
Do a MOOC but remember it's what it made you think rather than listing the course you've sat through.
Mention on line study days at other institutions to relate beck to what she found interesting, went on to read about.

Yes chemistry will help massively but it can't help of you're not able to get on the course due to low grades. Catch up courses, MOOCs and books on maths for biologists are all available. Honestly do what you need to do to get the As or Bs ( maths, chemistry, physics) . Look at school performance in subjects too as @Naem says.
Geography?
PE?

Ginfordinner · 15/10/2020 11:38

My daughter sounds very like your daughter Naem. I agree that having the right teacher makes such a difference.

BlueMarigold · 15/10/2020 13:55

Thank you @Tickledtrout. I know she was made to do a load of online learning courses over lockdown so she might have already done some that are relevant.

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Guymere · 15/10/2020 14:27

To be honest, most applicants won’t have swum with turtles and if that type of activity was a criteria, then a university would be choosing on parental income!

What anyone can do for zoology is study a pet! Anyone wanting to do zoology should have one or get access to one! It doesn’t have to be an exotic animal. In general though, universities are not getting loads of well qualified applicants so PS won’t matter that much. For most of the best courses, applicants are chosen on predicted grades. Obviously some interview.

I’m a bit worried about choosing subjects based on nice teachers. They leave. In addition when you choose options at university you don’t know what the lecturer is like. Teachers have always moaned about the top set being not as good as they should be! It’s a throw away complaint. It’s not serious. Teachers are not all the same temperamentally either. Ditto university lecturers. In life not everyone is nice. I would try and get DD to see that the bark is worse than the bite.

WeirdlyOdd · 15/10/2020 14:47

I didn't attend Aber, just the open day and had a cousin there. It's not in the top tier of unis. It's very quiet, but also quite cosy. Can be a bit bleak in winter, and utterly dependent on the students for its culture and nightlife, such as it is. Suits quite outdoorsy people who will enjoy exploring the coast and Snowdonia.

Biology/Zoology - Biology will be more useful on the future job market, whether for science jobs or for graduate schemes. I've a number of friends who studied Zoology at RG universities, and they've either gone into PhDs then academia, or have had to retrain and gone into publishing, IT, or similar. Fascinating course though, I sat in on a few lectures and loved them!

WeirdlyOdd · 15/10/2020 14:50

IIRC Aber also had scholarships you can apply for, which give some money towards tuition fees etc. The exams take place in your school before A-level exams and the scholarships go to those who do best (although maybe they adjust now for privilege, a lot's changed in 20 + years).

Boredbumhead · 15/10/2020 14:55

Aberystwyth is gorgeous and safe with a friendly community and lowest covid rates in the country. Aber every time!

Boredbumhead · 15/10/2020 14:57

Ps Aber is not bleak in winter as a pp said!

BlueMarigold · 15/10/2020 15:09

@Guymere thank you for the reassurance.

@Boredbumhead that is good to know about the covid rates!

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Guymere · 15/10/2020 15:12

I do think it’s not helpful to compare zoology grades with medicine grades. The universities expect a very high number of medic applications. They don’t choose purely by grades. Potential medics frequently are expected to have some relevant work experience, will have to do pre tests, will be subjects to numerous interviews and their PS will be read and their GCSE results are likely to be in the mix too. For zoology none of this is likely to be an issue. All Sheffield will want for zoology is candidates who will suit the course.

Naem · 15/10/2020 16:10

@Guymere: I’m a bit worried about choosing subjects based on nice teachers. They leave.

You think I don't know! I did successfully persuade her to take Geography rather than History for GCSE, because she is genuinely interested in Geography (climate change and it affects the animals) and not in History (people - which according to DD equals boring)- but at the time they were making the choices, the History teacher was nice, and the Geography teacher wasn't. Then the History teacher left and was replaced by one which wasn't so nice, still before GCSEs, which meant we were a bit more secure. And then the Geography teacher left and has been replaced by a brilliant one, and she is absolutely loving Geography, and now wants to do it for A Level.

In addition when you choose options at university you don’t know what the lecturer is like.

Agreed, as with the GCSE in fact. I know that, and she will probably know that, but the reality of university is that if you don't get on with the teacher, you can often swap within the first few weeks, even if it means studying something a bit different. It shouldn't be necessary for personality reasons, but I certainly am aware of people who were less focussed on what they wanted to study and did it.

Teachers have always moaned about the top set being not as good as they should be! It’s a throw away complaint. It’s not serious.

While I agree with most of what you have said, this one I am afraid I disagree with strongly. One of the things they keep showing is that, while boys will often take that as a challenge, girls lose confidence and conclude they are "not good at maths", and drop out. And I really see this in my own family. If anything, I think my DD is possibly stronger at maths than my DS, but there is no way she would be an A* A Level student in maths (as my DS is), and the major difference is that when a problem seems hard, it motivates my DS to find a solution, whereas my DD is more likely to give up. She doesn't believe she can, so she won't (if she needed maths to save the life of her beloved hamster, then you might find she was extraordinarily good at maths). Telling her that she is not good enough to be in set 1, just makes her believe that you are right, and therefore not to try very hard because she is not good enough to be tackling these problems. Given that this teacher is teaching a class of girls, I therefore think her comments are very distructive in terms of what she wants to achieve.

Teachers are not all the same temperamentally either.

Agreed.

Ditto university lecturers. In life not everyone is nice. I would try and get DD to see that the bark is worse than the bite.

I spend a lot of time trying (as mentioned, she comes home from school on the two days she has chemistry in tears). The reality is that she is so terrified of the bark, that she cannot take in anything at all in class. It is clearly ridiculous that a chemistry teacher makes them write the date in a foreign language (albeit one that DD is studying, although not all of them are, so in theory she should be one of the ones who doesn't find it difficult) and yells at them if they don't. But the whole thing just upsets DD so much that she cannot learn. That is the reality. Luckily she has a good set of friends in the set who are less thrown, and can tell her what the homework is, and then I can help her actually do it, and help with the notes that she is scared are not perfect and therefore she will be yelled at for. Just as teachers are not the same temperamentally, so are students, and my DD is a particularly nervy one, and the reality is that we need to work around this. DD will not voluntarily choose to do chemistry under this teacher. One option might be to move for sixth form, so she can do chemistry (in the hope that whatever chemistry teacher we speak to and check out might then stay for the two years necessary). But she will have two sciences - Biology and Geography, so it is only really the third (or fourth, if she takes photography outside of school, as she is currently doing for GCSEs).

Guymere · 15/10/2020 16:56

Well I do have sympathy. I do think you are mixing up being in a top set with getting a good result and confidence.

My DD1 bobbed along at the bottom of set 1 For maths. Wouldn’t have minded being in set 2. She had little confidence in her ability because most of the others were better at maths then she was. She stayed in set 1 and no teacher suggested she shouldn’t be there but she knew she wasn’t as good as the majority. So being in set 1 didn’t give confidence at all. It made her feel less competent!

DD2 bobbed along in set 2. The school thought she would be best in set 3. We all agreed. She then got a far better teacher who encouraged her and she did way better than we expected. So quality of teaching really counts but the number attached to the set doesn’t.

I utterly agree that shouty teachers are awful and need more training. Neither use nor ornament. But when at university there are core subjects. You cannot just get rid of a lecturer who doesn’t suit. So there does come a time when you cannot choose subjects based on personality and teaching style.

BlueMarigold · 15/10/2020 18:54

I guess that carries on into later life too. You can’t choose your boss or your work colleagues. DD2’s school is constantly changing teachers and I’m pretty sure she’s being taught by substitutes as it’s a different teacher each week!

@Naem don’t worry too much. She may say she will pick A-levels based on teachers now but by the time she has to choose, she will have grown up quite a lot and will know which subjects to pick based on what she likes

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Guymere · 15/10/2020 19:10

And what she needs for her chosen subject at university!