Working abroad for UN and home status

[Unanduni]

Hi all
I know this is quite niche but maybe someone can shed light on whether my DD is likely to get home status.

DD was actually born abroad in my dh's country so she's a dual national. However, we moved to the UK when she was little and lived in UK until she was about 8, owned home etc.

I then get a job offer from the UN and we left the UK. Lived in 3 countries since, including a few years in an EU country. Now DD is 16 and in Yr12 (currently not in a EU country) and beginning to look at unis.

We have made frequent trips to the UK (at least once a year although not this year due to coronavirus) over the years and have always owned a house/had a bank account and paid taxes on rental income from renting out the house. In the two countries we needed visas for, we have always been on UN/diplomatic visas so never any intention (or right) to remain long term and/or settle.

Really really hoping DD will get home status - can anyone give any advice? I know diplomats and armed forces are considered home even if they were abroad but not sure if international organizations counts as well. Will it matter that she is a dual national and born aboad?

It varies by university.
Were your contracts all short term?

No, not short term. Usually two year fixed term. But it doesn't matter because I never had the right to settle in the countries in which I have worked (other than EU when dd used her EU residency rights whereas I remained on the diplomatic register as I was obliged to but that's moot since at the time EU residence 'counted' for dd)

As said already, each university assesses differently. She basically has to prove that the UK is home, and would have always been home if not for work meaning you were 'sent' abroad. The more proof you have the better, so try to find all old short terms visas, proof of taxes, proof of regular returns, etc. From the very beginning, make sure she puts your UK address on the UCAS form, and indicates herself as a UK national. They'll then send a fee status questionnaire if there's any doubt. At that point, you can help her argue it to the universities.

The dual national and born abroad has no impact whatsoever, so don't worry about that.
It's quite variable in my experience (I advise students on university applications as part of my job), but they always end up with a couple of places assessing them as home fees so usually ok.

Thanks! That is really helpful. Our house is rented out but can ask family or friends to use their address for her. She would go to them in the holidays anyway.

Aware that it is unis that do the assessment but surely they must have some standardization of approaches? Or will it be a crap shoot which one will give her home status?

I was mainly wondering if working for the UN or similar is considered the same as diplomats (since we are on diplomatic visas and not actually officially considered residents of the country in which we live). But it looks like each university will make that assessment on their own?

I think the difference (apart from salary!) is that British government employees are working for the U.K. and deemed to be “ordinarily resident” in U.K. and pay tax there. So Iwould think it unlikely

Hmm, but UN employees are not considered resident in the country in which they are resident as well.
And UN employees effectively pay income tax to their own country, not to the national government where the duty station is. Basically, the UN tax rates are based on the average of all duty stations so you pay the same wherever you are (whether Sweden or UAE) and that amount is then accrued to your country's assessed contribution to the UN. So the UK's contribution to the UN is reduced by however much UK UN employees have paid in their income tax. I know it's a bit complicated but I do effectively pay tax to the UK government :)

(and btw UK govt employees sent abroad have it much better than UN employees - yes, salary is lower but their accommodation and bills are fully covered as is international school and this is not the case at the UN, in expensive duty stations especially they are much better off)

I’ve worked for an international organisation, not the UN, as well as U.K. government. I know where I was better off. One of my friends works for the UN at a fairly junior level and clears over $100,000 per annum (no tax on that, however it is worked out). 🤷‍♀️

Also worked for UK govt (in the UK) before moving to UN :) My dept had many overseas deployments so I knew the conditions they were offering and know how it compares to the UN.

$100k is obviously a good salary but think how much goes on rent and bills and schools (esp if you have more than one kid) in NYC. Say a UK civil servant deployed to NYC earns $50,000 take home pay. Then they have their rent covered (easily $5,000 a month in NYC for a family) and then they have international school costs covered (even UN school is $40k a year, UN staff have to pay 25% of school fees so that's $20k a year extra compared to UN for 2 kids). So you can see that diplomats are better off than UN staff when they are abroad. Not complaining, by the way, just that UN staff aren't better paid that diplomats but we're both pretty well paid for what we do!

Unless Ambassadorial level, most civil servants in NYC aren’t going to be taking home $50K. Children of government employees have to go to American public schools in the US and families don’t live on Manhattan. I was told this by a friend who is posted out there, and is now stressing about how her kids will fit back into the U.K. system.

It might be difficult to be honest. She should try and get her assessment off student finance first, then if successful use that to argue with any uni that thinks differently. SLC may well not accept UN as diplomat equivalent. But worth a try.

I worked for the UN overseas. I had to be an ordinary resident for tax purposes in the UK for two or three years before I was eligible for UK student status (sorry, it's three years ago so I forget the residency length requirement). I would guess the university would try and charge international fees. You weren't sent abroad for your job, you chose a job abroad so you wouldn't get that dispensation as I understand. Bank accouts and all that don't make any odds, it's residency that they looked at. I'd contact institutions directly for advice though. My application was for a funded course and the research council enforced the rules.

Thanks for the advice.
I was looking at how people working in UAE who are on temporary visas as that's all the UAE will give and have managed to establish that their absence was temporary. I hope we can do the same.

@MrsSchadenfreude
I don't want to detail my own thread but I'm pretty sure of my numbers.
A Grade 6 would usually take home around $50k plus since salaries start at about 55k gbp per year (you can even check this online). Senior civil service would earn more.
When we lived in NYC we paid more than $5k outside of Manhattan. That's what a family home in a decent part of Queens or Brooklyn will cost.
Not sure about schools for your friend, it could depend on contract type. But definitely when I looked at posts abroad when I was in the UK, schools were 100% covered or boarding school in the UK. Career diplomats who move postings frequently absolutely need international schools for their children - it would be unreasonable otherwise - and my children's international school in NYC had loads of children of diplomats.
Again, not complaining as UN staff are indeed well compensated. Just pointing out that diplomats aren't badly off in comparison!

Families in NYC live in Westchester now. Not sure how up to date your info is, but my friend was told that living in NYC wasn’t an option for families with children, and nor was attending private school. She said it was the same in other English speaking countries with a comparable standard of education, so Australia, Canada, NZ. I agree the deal for civil servants overseas is not a bad one, but if you are more junior than grade 6, say an HEO on around £35K per annum, you might struggle. Particularly if you only have one salary coming in.

So for senior staff, the salary/package might be comparable, but definitely not for junior staff!